Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

If my eyesight was good enough I could read that from here. We are nearly there. I wish to raise some issues. During the lunch break Deputy MacSharry raised the issue in previous meetings of the PAC information had been sought in respect of the Cork Institute of Technology. Mr. Ó Foghlú has checked his records in the meantime and has confirmed that he did write back to the previous Committee of Public Accounts committee on 10 June 2014. I wish to put that formally on the record as there was confusion about it earlier.

One of the reasons we are here is because public private partnerships have a role. I am agnostic on the policy approach but not everyone is agnostic on the issue. If they are good, they are good. If they do a job, I have no issue, but the public is always entitled to know whether we are getting value for money. In the course of the past year we have had Transport Infrastructure Ireland before the committee and the Department of Education and Skills. When we see a significant payment going out each year through the appropriation account for PPPs and we are told it is for a school or a bypass, the PAC does not know if it provides good value for money and that gives some people an opportunity to say it is not good value for money. It would be in the interests of the PPP disciples to put more information out there to show whether the projects are good value for money to prove their point but as long as there are no explanations a vacuum causes problems.

In recent months the committee has not approved any appropriation account with PPP payments because we cannot say whether we think it is good or bad. There is a gap in the process from the point of view of the PAC. I cannot stand over appropriation accounts on the Plinth if there is a figure for €120 million for a PPP if I and the PAC are not satisfied that it was good value for money. The witnesses can understand where we are coming from. There has been a lot of secrecy in the past but society moves on. Contracts are in place and there is printed information available. As time goes on people will know that once a contract is up and running the commercial sensitivity diminishes and it is not necessary to wait for many years to pass. Essentially, that is one of the reasons we are here.

I know the committee will not be satisfied to conclude this chapter in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report until probably much later in the year when we see some of these reports. I do not say there is an issue but it will make it all the better if we can issue a report having seen more information but we are not at that point yet. The witnesses seem to be saying we will get to that point soon. In due course we will come back to that topic. That is all I wish to say.

I thank the witnesses. I accept the exchanges in the meeting earlier on were robust but there is a bit of frustration among members due to the information that is not yet available that we would like to see. We hope it will become available shortly.

I thank all the witnesses from the Departments of Public Expenditure and Reform and Education and Skills, Transport Infrastructure Ireland, the Comptroller and Auditor General and his staff, and the National Development Finance Agency. We will not dispose of chapter 4 for the reasons stated. We will now adjourn until our next public meeting on Thursday, 29 March at 9 a.m. when we will be considering the grant funding to Galway's art house cinema, which is chapter 16 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. We will also be looking at the appropriation accounts 2016, Vote 33 for the Department of Arts, Heritage, Regional and Gaeltacht Affairs.