Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

There are many issues that we need to address. We need to demonstrate what the Committee of Public Accounts has achieved, in spite of what those who want to knock us might say. We will certainly come back to that matter.

The next item of correspondence is No. 1114B from Mr. Tony O'Brien, director general of the HSE, enclosing information requested by the committee on salary overpayments in respect of the HSE for 2016 and 2017. The figure in question is approximately €2.5 million. We will note that. The next item is No. 1116Bfrom Mr. Fergal Lynch, Secretary General of the Department of Children and Youth Affairs, dated 20 February 2018 with further information on the quality capacity building initiative, QCBI, as requested by the committee at our meeting on 8 February 2018. We will note and publish that. Correspondence item No. 1118B is from Mr. Robert Watt, Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform regarding public bodies within the remit of the National Shared Services Office, NSSO, and a briefing note on the feasibility and scoping study that was carried out to determine which Departments and bodies transferred to the NSSO. We will note and publish that. The next item is No. 1120B from Mr. Kieran Harrington, Department of Health, dated 22 February 2018 enclosing follow-up information requested by this committee in respect of the Dormant Account Fund and community based models to support people with dementia. We will note and publish that. A number of issues are arising regarding the Dormant Account Fund and as a committee, we found that engagement most unsatisfactory. It was all over the place and nobody seemed to have a handle on it. We will come back to that issue as part of our periodic report. It was a glaring problem. That is all I can say at the moment about the way that account has been administered in recent times.

The next item is No. 1121B from Ms Marie Ryan of the Courts Service, dated 22 February 2018, with an information note on the court poor box. I want to highlight this because an individual wrote to me about it. The note we received about the court poor box is very interesting. The Courts Service has provided figures from 2013 to 2017 showing that the poor box received €8.917 million in the period, with payments from the poor box amounting to €8.734 million. The poor box is running at close to €2 million per annum and is now fully maintained by the Courts Service through its own accounting system.

All of those payments are centralised, recorded and verifiable. The heads of the criminal justice (community sanctions) Bill are under consideration. That proposed legislation would replace the Probation of Offenders Act, which deals with this. It will come up in due course.

The most interesting part of the correspondence, however, is the comment that there are three categories of payments made to the court poor box. The figures mentioned relate to category A payments, in respect of which the correspondence states, "Such payments are accounted for in the Court office and the accounting procedures are subject to audit by both the C & AG and Internal Audit." The correspondent goes on to say there are category B payments, made directly to a named charity by producing a receipt in court. She states, "These payments are not included in the annual Poor Box receipt figures." It appears that, on some occasions, the judge can say some money should be put into the court poor box while, on others, he can ask that €200 be given to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, for example. The person has to come back with a receipt from the Society of St. Vincent de Paul the next month showing that the payment has been made. It does not go through the system. Therefore, we do not know what is going through that system. There are also category C payments, referred to as payments made via the Probation and Welfare Service to the Garda on order of the court. It is stated, "These payments are not accounted for in the Court Office and are not included in annual Poor Box receipt figures." Therefore, there are two categories of payments not going through the accounting system. We should write to the Courts Service in this regard. It is in its interest and in the interest of the administration of justice that the service get a handle on this. One category of payments goes through the poor box and two other categories do not do so at all. I am surprised by that. I thank the correspondent for the information and for making it public. It answers questions people have on payments through the poor box that do not seem to be able to be traced anywhere. At least we are now hearing some of the reasons why this is happening. It is not the way it should be; that is all I can say. I do not want to trespass into the area of the authority of judges. Judges issue the fines and request that amounts be paid, but they should be accounted for by the Courts Service somewhere.