Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

In saying this, while the site is temporary and people are there without permission now, the accommodation is not acceptable either. In some cases, people possibly cannot wait for a solution for the site without finding new accommodation and putting it on the site, because some of the accommodation is just disgraceful. It is not acceptable and people should not be asked to live in it. I have made this clear to the local authority also and we will deal with it to find solutions. There are different forms of temporary solution.

What the Deputy said is discussed in his clinics reflects what a lot of us also see in our clinics. A high percentage of people from a Traveller background find it extremely difficult. This is what Senator Kelleher also said earlier and I agree. There is a similar occurrence in my clinics. Again, this is why we are here and why we are bringing the focus of the committee, my focus and the focus of various experts to this through the NTACC to try to make this happen and make changes. It has been going on for a long time. I read reports from the early 1990s and before that, and we have not moved on enough on this. There have been some great projects in this time but not enough. This is not because of a shortage of money. It is because the progress was not there.

I agree the TAP is a good process to identify and make commitments on needs but it does not always make the selection of sites and deal with this end of it. I know from being involved as a councillor in my early days that there was difficulty in finding transient sites. If we are to bring solutions here, we also need to have some transient sites to accommodate in a much better way, which is acceptable to everybody, the culture of moving around from county to county, with proper transient sites that are well serviced and maintained for people who can book in and out. It would be much better than an ad hocsite without planning that can cause difficulties for everybody involved. The TAP process is good from this perspective. It does not always deal with planning issues or site selection, which is part of the problem also.

The Deputy has suggested solutions, which I will bring to the expert group. I will not prejudge its work, but a range of people here have suggested various solutions and they can all be looked at. It is very clear to me that everybody here wants solutions and wants to put us in a position to be able to spend money, and this is what we also want to do.

I agree absolutely that it has gone on too long. Originally we agreed to set up the first report and this has been completed for almost a year. Last July, I was asked if I would agree to an expert panel that would make changes that we would have to work on and I agreed absolutely. I agreed with it that day and did not wait for a second meeting. This process is taking longer than I would have liked, but we are at a stage now where an expert panel can be established quite soon, and there is no reason it should not report in the summer with decisions being made in the autumn at the latest. We are on the same timelines here. I do not see any reason for slippage. A lot of the evidence and research we need has been gathered, and it is just to make some firm recommendations and decisions. I am happy to work with the committee and share the process with it throughout the system. Someone asked about coming back and there is no problem. I will come back as often as the committee wants me to on this issue. We all have to refocus here, because the standard of accommodation in some of these cases is not acceptable. Again, I want to be very clear that it needs everybody, all stakeholders and all sides, working together to find solutions.

With regard to whether we make quick changes on data centres, this is not technically true. We set out a commitment to make changes, the same as I have set out today. These changes must go through the Houses of the Oireachtas and they will be in the Seanad on Report Stage, with some recommendations and amendments that may not pass. We have not made the changes but we have made a commitment. Likewise, I am making a very strong commitment here, as is the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, that we want changes to make this happen and get this money spent and make this progress. This is what we can do as a Government. The process has to go through the Houses and I respect the process. I recognise the commitment of the committee in this area. It can be difficult for some people, but the committee is very strong and clear on this, and it is good to have this support in doing our work.

To answer Senator Warfield, I did not go into the percentage of every budget. They have all been slashed too much across all of the services, never mind just housing. Any budget for providing services, including education, to people who need them have been cut and slashed far too much. The aim here is to put the money back in as quickly as possible. I do not have a target of what I want to get back to. When the money was allocated by previous Governments, they were complimented on it but it was not always spent. Over a five-year TAP process we saw money spent in the last two years but not necessarily in the first three years, and the reports reflect this. There have been various degrees of 80% and 90%, and it probably hovers at approximately 80% in most years. It is not enough and it has dropped a lot lower in recent years.

I have no problem fighting for an increased budget, and we will get it because there is a commitment. It has been gradually increasing over recent years, with an extra €3 million this year. It will not be enough, but if we cannot spend what we have, it will not help me make the argument for more money. This is why I want to be able to have a stronger business case so that when I go to my Department for various discussions on social housing projects and when we go to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to look for more money, and we have a lot of money ring-fenced for housing in the coming years, we are able to show, as we have to be able to, that we can spend it in a proper and high-quality way, with high design that is acceptable to everybody and brings in solutions. This commitment is there.

Eventually, we probably need to go beyond the money allocated in 2008 and 2009, when we can get there, but this is about the process of making sure we get it spent and that we can find Traveller-specific accommodation that is acceptable to the Traveller community and that the members of the community like and want, that they are part of that decision-making process, and that they also understand that some sites have a limited amount of space and some do not. However, we must plan enough to deal with the demand for Traveller-specific accommodation and other types of accommodation they want according to various research.

There was one last question about performance. We will try to track the performance of the various local authorities in this. Some of them are extremely good at this and put considerable work into it. Some local authorities have met barriers they have not been able to overcome. We are trying to help them through that. Not all local authorities have the same commitment. There is a variance. We want a standard approach across the system. Everybody needs to live up to their responsibilities here. In some cases there is an avoidance of responsibility. In some cases it can be difficult to get solutions. That is no reason not to find solutions. We need to make it happen.