Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The rationale for this meeting is the fact that approximately 10,000 employees of CIÉ face an uncertain future regarding their legitimate expectations. They have paid contributions to pension schemes over many years. I received, as, I am sure, have my colleagues, much correspondence from CIÉ employees who are very worried about the future. They fulfilled their side of the obligation in terms of making their contributions but it would appear that the CIÉ Group has not fulfilled its side. As a consequence, there is under-funding and an issue regarding the solvency of two pension schemes. While I am good friends with Senator Feighan, I would disagree with him. I think we have a responsibility to hold the board of CIÉ to account. I welcome the fact that not just the unions are here today to answer questions but also representatives from the CIÉ Group. Does CIÉ accept that, in the context of the rationalisation plan in 1994 whereby five schemes were amalgamated into two, there was a requirement by law set out by way of statutory instrument for CIÉ to ensure that these two schemes met their solvency requirements? Mr. Ennis alluded to Appendix 1 regarding a document which he contends is a CIÉ document. Can the representatives from CIÉ answer quite clearly whether this is a CIÉ document? A simple "Yes" or "No" answer will suffice because the contention is that it is a CIÉ document. If it is, it poses a raft of further questions.

It would also appear that the three unions represented here are all singing from the same hymn sheet and have one basic requirement that they feel would empower and enable them to negotiate with CIÉ to bring about a resolution. This involves obtaining independent legal advice. I would happily support Senator Feighan's recommendation that we as a committee would recommend through the Department and Minister that funding be made available so they can get independent legal advice. The CIÉ Group repeatedly says that it will not impose any change relating to the pensions without consultation with the employees. Does the reason it will not impose any change relate to the fact that there is a legal requirement to which it must adhere?

During Mr. O'Leary's contribution, he referenced statutory instruments and legislation. What does he think our role as Members of the Oireachtas is regarding the difficulties facing CIÉ? Could the representatives of the unions give their opinion as to what makes a CIÉ defined benefit scheme different from any other defined benefit scheme? Why did the 1951 pensions committee resign en masse? I understand that there was no meeting since before September 2017. I think elections might have been held and a new committee is in place. Has that committee met for the first time since its election?