Mr. Declan Carlyle:

Deputy Murphy asked me about the level of benefits provided in the scheme. In appendix 1 of the company's reply to the parliamentary question, the level of benefits provided can be seen. There was a reference earlier to the McCarthy report which has some interesting things to say about CIÉ and the use of its assets, by the way. There was a table of salary and pension contributions laid out in the report, which did not pass any comment on it, although it did so in relation to other organisations. The level of benefits is in some ways skewed in the 1951 scheme by the social welfare offset by 1,000 members, approximately €24,000. There are 1,000 D class members in there with no offset and there are 1,000 members with a €24,000 offset. The resulting pensionable salary is, on average, €58,000. One can see that if one takes out the 1,000 by €24,000, the pensionable salary for the 1,000 D class members is substantially higher. The level of benefit provided in each scheme is, in any event, set out in appendix 1.

I refer to the request by Mr. Ahern as a member. I am also a member of the 1951 committee. It is one committee, not two. That committee has the unique power as trustee to get its own legal advice, etc. Unfortunately, the recently elected members have not attended the meetings scheduled by the secretary. That is a matter which could be dealt with by the committee which has the power and, as CIÉ notes, has commissioned its own legal advice in the past. There are not two committees. It is not the four elected members and the four board members. There is one committee.