Mr. Manuel Cortes:

Deputy Munster, who is not present, raised the question of why the company has not yet given a guarantee that it will fund independent legal advice, even though it has this morning repeatedly been asked to do so. It is refusing because it knows it is on shaky ground and such advice may support the contention that the company has been flouting legal instruments, as the unions have been contending throughout the process. The company keeps repeating the £30,000 amount but that may not be sufficient to fund the legal advice we seek. It might be worthwhile to ask the company's representatives if they can give us the categoric assurance we seek. If that is forthcoming, we will engage in talks with the management, but if it is not, we will not do so. There is no way around that impasse without a categoric assurance from the company that it will pay for the independent legal advice. It is to be hoped its representatives will provide such before the committee today.

We have a serious difficulty in regard to the issue raised by Mr. O'Leary regarding the Pensions Authority and that may be cause for another meeting of the committee. The company is comparing apples with oranges in that regard and is putting restrictions on our scheme, which is open and operates under statute as opposed to a closed scheme without statutory obligations. One cannot compare apples with oranges. One of the requirements they are imposing on us makes no sense because the scheme is open and there are big cashflows coming in through member and employer contributions on a regular basis. There is no chance or fear that pensions will not be paid out from the scheme but limiting our investment decisions that will better serve the interest of people who are paying in today to just bonds makes the scheme more expensive. It is nonsensical that regulations brought in to protect people's pensions are undermining those pensions. However, that may be a subject for another inquiry.

My colleague, Mr. Terence Ahern, will address the question of what happened in 2013.