Mr. Declan Carlyle:

There were numerous options, all of which were provided to the worker directors. Nothing was hidden or explosive. These were considerations put to the board as to how it would manage its funding costs. Ultimately, the recommendation by the actuary was 2.8 and 2.3. That was absolutely adhered to by CIÉ.

The funding proposal set down the contribution from CIÉ, which has been adhered to since 2013. In 2015, because of our FRS number reached astronomical levels of over €700 million, CIÉ invited in the trade union group to discuss what it saw as a potential difficulty with its schemes coming down the road. There was extensive engagement. There was a request for funding for advice sought by the trade union group. At the time it was provided by CIÉ at a cost €47,000. That advice has been referred to as an independent report. It was not as it was a trade union group report. It provided legal advice in itself to the trade union group. It is attached in appendices to our replies to parliamentary questions.

We subsequently debated that report at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC. An element of that report was used as a foundation for the regular wages scheme pending proposal. That came from the trade union group to reflect the actual experience of the retirement age in the regular wages scheme. There was extensive engagement on that.

We then came back to the WRC where the trade union group was looking for further actuarial advice, having confirmed to CIÉ at the WRC that it had received its own legal advice. One of the unions told its own members in the previous December that it was getting legal advice. We were asked to fund actuarial advice for a UK actuary because Irish actuaries, including their own, had no standing as far as the trade union group was concerned. Ultimately, that was agreed. The UK actuaries then confirmed they would need an Irish actuary to corroborate anything they presented to the trade union group.

We returned to the WRC in October last year and agreed an initial amount of £30,000 would be provided to the trade union group to use for professional services. That is attached as an appendix to the company's replies to parliamentary questions. The £30,000 offer for further professional services, not only actuarial, remains available to the trade union group.