Michelle Mulherin (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their presentations. I apologise for missing the first presentation by the EPA but I managed to watch the other presentations on screen.

Climate change is a recurrent issue for this committee. A number of us travelled to Brussels before Christmas. The clear message that we got from MEPs, Commissioner Hogan and everywhere we went was that the new CAP scheme would place greater environmental requirements on farmers in terms of water quality, biodiversity and climate change. Any responsible person would have to say that to grow an industry, with all that we now know and the witnesses are keenly aware of the fallout, things must be done in a sustainable fashion. One will go nowhere if one does not do so and one is just pillaging the earth.

We must to our best to rescue the situation and put ourselves on the right trajectory. While we obviously must take account of scientific findings and take on board what we are told, in many ways, we must fine-tune how we bring people along. Everybody has a part to play but I refer to what happens sometimes when climate change is being discussed. Everybody seems to get excited about the Paris climate accord and agreement but when it comes to individual choices people cannot see that they can make a difference. Sometimes, where they can make a difference, they choose not to do so. The Government must create policies that will encourage people to change their lifestyles. In terms of energy usage, all of our business and lifestyles have emanated from the fact that we discovered oil. Many technologies have stemmed from that discovery and it could be argued that if we had diversified at an earlier stage we would be in a different position and would have avoided a number of wars as well.

One attitude that sometimes comes across, and I mean no disrespect, is that one is urged to stop doing this and that and it seems like we must pull back. The reality for us, as politicians who deal with people, is that people expect certain lifestyles now in the agriculture sector or in terms of the type of car one has or how power is used in the home. Anything where we tell people to stop and switch off is often viewed as a backward step. Of course the message has been conveyed that people can save money by conserving energy but I am impressed more by new solutions. A very simple solution has been the advent of light emitting diodes, LEDs, and lighting and electricity has become a lot more efficient, cheaper etc. Solutions that prove meaningful to people must involve all of the technology. It not good enough just to tell people that Armageddon is coming because people just throw up their hands and decide to carry on as normal and, unfortunately, that is the message that people are given.

Energy is a major part of agriculture too. I hail from a part of the country that has a lot of natural renewable energy resources such as wind and wave energy. The wind energy sector on land has been developed more. I have often thought that when we were developing projects, there were no experts around to identify where projections should be developed. Instead, politicians attended public meetings where we encountered people who objected to such development. It is all very well to say, at a high level, that we should achieve this. I have heard calls to crush the farming way of life but that is unrealistic. Instead, people switch off and do not participate in an innovative fashion. Some people have even called for farmers not to keep livestock any more. Such people are negative towards the many positive things that farmers do or are involved in and have been contradicted in terms of the dairy sector. Ireland has the most carbon efficient dairy production sector in Europe and Ireland is fifth in beef production. Every aspect of farmers' lives are affected by climate change. Environmental requirements must be satisfied before farmers can draw down payments and farmers are heavily penalised if they do not comply with the rules stipulated by Europe. All of that must be acknowledged in terms of farming.

I note that Deputy Penrose has left the meeting. Mr. Lumley mentioned fodder shortages. Ireland, as a country, has natural advantages when rearing bovine animals. Therefore, is it realistic to expect Irish farmers to grow more plant-based food crops? My understanding is it is easier to grow protein crops in the tropics, for example, than here. I imagine that attempts to grow some of those crops here would not be successful. Is that not a reality, from the climate point of view, in respect of how we live and in terms of what our diets require?

As for how targets will be achieved, an awful lot of targets have been discussed at a higher level. The Irish Government is regularly bashed for not meeting its targets. I believe this country should be sustainable in its approach to all things and it is a good economic move as well. Recently there have been media announcements about hybrid vehicles and manufacturing in China and India. Ireland has to meet many targets such as Food Wise 2025. The food sector is a major employer in rural Ireland and is a considerable part of the Irish economy. How do the witnesses reconcile that fact with having a transition blueprint and who pays for all of this while bearing in mind the current realities we are facing?

My next question is on the local authorities.

It seems that we need to bring things down to a more local level. Do the witnesses envisage more of a role for local authorities in that regard? I appreciate that they have environmental sections and work with the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, and so on but can they have more of a role in trying to achieve some of our targets, whether through education or otherwise? What might that involve or is it feasible?

As regards the marine, Dr. Heffernan referred to the €6.4 billion growth target in terms of Ireland's ocean economy. Mr. Lumley discussed the expansion of the beef and dairy industry and set out that our targets in that regard are not sustainable. As regards targets in terms of the marine, does Dr. Heffernan think that harnessing our ocean wealth is being future-proofed in terms of climate change? If so, how is that progressing? Could some of what is being implemented or encouraged by the Marine Institute be brought to bear on agriculture? What advice would Dr. Heffernan offer on the dilemma with which we are faced in that regard?