Shane Cassells (Meath West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I agree with Deputy Cullinane and Deputy Murphy about the need for a real discussion on this. This layer of government is the most important in people's every day lives. We deal with headline figures here. It is this level of government that we rely on for implementation of policy relating to housing, roads - which we discussed this week - or a new strand of social policy that local government is involved in. I agree with my colleagues that we should have clarity of thought before these witnesses came in. The worst thing would be to get bogged down in a quagmire that would suit the witnesses down to the ground, to run down the clock all day. I know Deputy Murphy has said that it is a complicated layer of funding to work out and she is right but at the same time there is a Houdini act going on as was mentioned with regard to the local government fund, which no longer exists.

More Houdini tricks were pulled with the introduction of the local property tax whereby aspects that had previously been funded by the Department would become self-funded, as it were, by the councils.

The Chairman and Deputy Murphy mentioned progression, but I will tell them what that progression has been. The Chairman stated that he wanted the principal funders to appear before us and make themselves answerable. If so, we had better invite IBEC or some business representative to attend on the same day as well, given that 36% of all local government funding comes from the business people and SMEs of this country. The past ten years have seen a 10% increase in the income derived from rates because local government has been starved of central funding like a mangy dog. Income from rates has increased from a percentage in the mid-20s to 36% and now amounts to €1.5 billion. The Valuation Office appeared before us a couple of weeks ago, but we might as well have had my children in answering questions, seeing as how no one would take responsibility. The Valuation Office told us it was the Department's responsibility. When we asked the departmental official who was sitting here at the time, we were told that it was the Minister's responsibility. I am not spending a day doing that in a couple of weeks' time with no one taking responsibility for the questions we ask.

I agree with the Chairman. Let us bring everyone in, but some of the chief funders of local government are businesses. IBEC and others emailed us about the pressures they were under on the day the Valuation Office appeared before us, although it was a pity they did so a bit late. I would like to see representatives of business owners appear before us to discuss the imposition upon them. When one considers that rates account for 36% of overall income, the local property tax pales into insignificance.

When we put it to Mr. Paul Lemass on the day that local government structures were underfunded, I was worried when he said - members can check the record - that there would be a reappraisal of the property tax, providing an opportunity to bring in more funding. We are entering a dangerous sphere.

This is a big day for our committee. The Department has the most impact, not just on ordinary people's lives but on business people and employers as well. Business representatives should be present on the day, given that they are one of the chief income suppliers of local government. In that way, we could have a debate in the round as to how local government is funded, where the money is going and what we are doing.

Deputy Cullinane mentioned the quagmire in funding for housing. In my county a few weeks ago, €11.2 million was supplied in a grant by the Department. There was a big announcement. Only 40 houses are being built, though. That works out at nearly €300,000 per house for social housing. Something is wrong, and it is that site acquisition was built into the cost of each house. When the council applied for the site acquisition cost, it was told the amount would be given to it, but only as part of the delivery of the 40 houses. We will have many questions for these people on the day.