Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank members of the committee for their contributions and the general support for this measure.

Ultimately, what we are doing is supporting a fledgling industry that is growing all the time. It is an industry that has probably reached capacity in terms of how much it can grow and expand under the current legislation. I do not believe it can grow much more. It has probably reached its peak. It is possible that we can create a scenario whereby we can educate more people around the country, and particularly internationally, about the brand of Irish craft beer. That is what this is about. It has knock-on effects for the agriculture industry, the servicing industry, the transport industry and a whole range of other things as well. It could grow exponentially.

In terms of education on alcohol and its misuse, this is a very positive step because this shows what brewers are doing at a local level, how beer is made, what ingredients go into it and the culture and the history of many of these breweries. There is a whole process. One can go to Tipperary and see White Gypsy or to Laois to see 12 Acres, to west Kerry and see the breweries down there or those in Carlingford in Louth. Each area has its own beer. There is an education process around that. Each beer has a different taste and can complement different types of food. It is like wine tasting; an educational process which is not all about young people getting as much beer into themselves as possible. There are different experiences available when one drinks beer sensibly and socialises in the proper manner. Statistics have shown that people who drink craft beer actually drink less because it is a whole experience, rather than just the consumption of alcohol for the sake of it. That has been shown by international and local studies. That is a good thing.

As to where we go from here, the Minister is generally very supportive and has said so himself. The Department also has been quite supportive. This Bill seeks to address anomalies and to provide some practical legislation to allow this industry to move forward.

On the amendments which have been put forward, I agree that wine should be brought in. I have no issue with the time change at all, because it will allow people to clean up after their day. The issue of the suitability of premises is something of which many of the craft brewers I have visited - and I know a huge number of them at this stage - are aware. These people know that they are going to have to invest, but they will not invest in the clean-up and reorientation to meet with health and safety standards unless this legislation is passed in the first place. We are in a chicken-and-egg scenario. Some of these breweries are quite small but there is still the capacity to do tours. I have been in a number of such breweries which have had visitors. It basically involves ring-fencing a certain area. They still need to invest in that.

I do not particularly have an issue with the idea of licences put forward by the Minister. In fairness to the Minister and his Department they are obliged to work through earlier legislation and to try to make it fit here. I appreciate that. The proposed licence is restrictive in that it applies only to the produce that is sold on-site. We met the Department to ensure this would be a distinguished licence and the issue of the tour arose. I believe that a tour, in terms of on-sales and supporting the craft brewers in that area, is the way to go. I have gone through this idea with the craft brewers and their association. It creates a distinction in terms of the type of licence that will be in place for them.

We need to distinguish off-sales to a degree. I was educated about off-sales during this process. I believe one is allowed to sell 17 l. These craft brewers can sell kegs for parties and things like that. That is permitted at the moment. The issue, which I believe we will sort out through Report Stage, is to ensure that a craft brewer will also be able to sell off-licence to local people at smaller amounts than that. For example, if a person in Templemore is holding and event, he or she should be able to go to White Gypsy in Templemore, or if in Laois people can go to 12 Acres, and purchase a small amount of bottles or cans for that purpose. It would be very unusual and would not make sense if a craft brewer was not able to do that.

On the amendments - and I know the committee is under pressure in terms of timelines today - I am willing to work with the Minister and the Department, and indeed Deputy Wallace and others who have an interest in this. We can support the amendment that has been put forward by the Government with a view to making alterations on Report Stage based on Deputy Wallace's amendments, and based on dealing with the issue of small amounts of off-sales under such a licence, which is an anomaly which has to be dealt with.