John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am not sure that our witnesses today can answer that question. That information may have to come from the Department.

I do not want to reiterate the points made. Mr. Herrick outlined the issue in terms of the legislation. We have legislated in the sense that different pieces of legislation have added new areas where the card can be used.

There is no stand-alone instrument, as has been said, but different sections have been amended. Therein lies the problem, because as has been clearly outlined, it cannot all be seen in one place.

One of the social welfare Bills listed the next group of organisations to be granted access to the information. In their opening statement, the witnesses referred to more than 100 public bodies which now have access to it. I share Deputy Collins's concern. We have always envisioned the public services card being used for interactions with public bodies, but the time will come when access to this information will creep. I do not have very clear cases in mind, but an example might involve a cardholder who is entitled to free travel which is provided by a private operator or as part of a benefit, a cardholder might receive units of energy, such as gas, from a private operator. While these would be attempts to provide a benefit, the concern is that the card is involved and there is creep in access, and the centrally held information has the potential to spread much further than was ever envisaged. I would like to hear the witnesses' views. We have constantly kept the debate on the subject of the card's use by public bodies. After public bodies, however, will private companies eventually have access to some of the information, in the absence of primary legislation?