Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

What is the objective of this fund? The objective is that if the economy gets into difficulty in the future, money will be available to us which we can invest in the economy to offset that difficulty. I am struck by the fact that some of the countries that have been most successful in doing this, although they are asset rich, are those of a socially-democratic persuasion politically. When they get into difficulty at a point in the future, they will be able to invest in capital programmes in order to employ people at a time at which unemployment would otherwise be rising. For me, it is as simple as that. It operates on a countercyclical basis.

On the other questions the Deputy has put to me, her description of the bind is correct. If we put money in, it will reduce our net debt, although it will not affect our gross debt, as the Deputy well knows. She is also correct that when the funds are used, it will count as expenditure. However, we could get to a point at which we would have a choice between borrowing to fund expenditure or having access to a bank account in order to fund that expenditure ourselves without having to incur high interest payments. Amid all of the complexity, which the Deputy was right to raise, that is the simple insight on which I am trying to hone in. The Deputy is putting a number of questions to me and is saying that there are things which need to be teased out. There are. One of the reasons I am before the committee this afternoon is to hear the views of its members on the matter.

If I can just say one more thing on the questions the Deputy put to me, there was no fist-pumping on my behalf at all. In fact, I was at pains to acknowledge the great difficulty in which people still find themselves. I am painfully aware of it. I was simply making the point that, in contrast with what Deputy Bruton said, there are some good things happening in our country and the economy. If people like myself and, indeed, the Deputy - because she acknowledges that it is good that more people are back at work - do not point that out occasionally, we give way to the kind of political attacks that are capable of undermining what the people of Ireland have achieved.