Mr. Vincent Jennings:

All of us are on the same page in acknowledging that there is a problem. We acknowledge that we are part of that problem; we are a conduit. As long as I have been around - I am older than most here - there has been education on litter in schools. All of us remember it from fourth class onwards. We were very proud and our teachers were very proud in bringing us up. However, at the same time people feel no difficulty in opening their window and throwing things out, including things we have sold and things that others have sold. There is a fundamental problem here. The crux of the matter is that people are behaving inappropriately. Having a deposit-and-return scheme for glass and plastic bottles would most certainly meet some of the requirements in pushing people in another direction and making it economic.

However, the matter relating to litter and people thinking nothing about tossing a coffee cup out of the window will not be addressed because there is no return scheme for that. I have suggested that receptacles for those products be more widely available and also that our littering laws be enforced more fully. Local authorities should make a big thing about compliance. At the moment the fine is €150. In addition to local authorities, the Garda should also be involved. We need to use CCTV or whatever. We need to make it very clear that this society does not stand for littering.

Relating to small stores, the Deputy may think that his Bill was designed to facilitate and make it an easy streamlined thing. I can assure him that whatever solutions are being planned by this committee, the Department or others, small retailers need to be part of that solution. We cannot end up effectively exporting sales. If there is only one area - and it is attached to a shopping centre - where one can return the product and the vouchers are only available to be cashed in at that point, it becomes the norm for people to make their purchases there. We do not want to see that. We need to be part of the solution and that may require grants to assist us in the reverse-vending machines. It may require consideration on being rewarded for taking part if it is on a manual basis rather than reverse machines. However, if there is such a scheme the small retailer needs to be part of it because otherwise we are leaving it go over to the multinationals and we cannot afford that.

On the composition of the cup, there is no doubt that the cup could be changed. Whether it will retain the same level of heat is a matter for the scientists and others. I return to the fact that even if we meet all of those and there is no product contamination and no difficulties in the taste or anything like that, we still have the question of what that person who leaves my store and finishes his coffee walking down the street will do with the cup. How can we ensure that, following very significant investment in time and resources to devise a compostable cup, it actually does what it is supposed to do and becomes composted, and does not just end up in landfill or being incinerated? That is the important thing. There is an education requirement. I may not have answered all the questions; I probably did not. I would like to leave one message. We the small retailers want to be part of the solution. We acknowledge that there is a problem. We do not have our heads in the sand. We are not saying: "It's not our fault." We are all part of that, but we also need to be part of the solution.