Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their opening statements. The information they provided us with is useful. There is no doubt that there has been a substantial improvement over the decades in public transport services. I recall being a member of the consultative panel of the Dublin Transport Initiative that discussed some of the proposals that we now see in operation. The committee is examining the measures that still need to be implemented. The hardware is in place in many ways and the issue is how it is used. Reference was made to old trains and the old Craven carriages which could not have been adapted in a million years. Even the Dublin Bus fleet was much different prior to the 1990s when significant investment was made. However, there is much more to be done.

There was an expectation, for example, that when accessible services were available, people would be able to access them. A significant bone of contention on Dublin Bus vehicles is the issue of dedicated disabled spaces being occupied by somebody who has folded up a buggy, for example, and the bus driver being unable to pick up a wheelchair user as a result. The driver does not have the authority to instruct a passenger to make room for somebody in a wheelchair. How do we overcome that other than through public information campaigns? Should the drivers be given authority? Disability groups have asked for this.

There is a pilot project in respect of giving 24-hour notice. Will Mr. Meade elaborate on the intended roll-out? How will that work in practice? What areas will the pilot be run in? He stressed that 24-notice is advised but it is not essential and every endeavour is made to assist people at all times. That is grand if somebody is able bodied but if people in wheelchairs turn up for a service having given 24 hours' notice, they are more likely to be stranded and that is why they will not take the risk. That curtails their ability to travel. The company can say it is only advised to give notice but, in most cases, wheelchair users see the notice as essential. They will continue to raise this issue along with disability groups. The notice period is a major bone of contention.

Do local authorities have to be proactive in seeking the available money from the NTA to ensure the surfaces are correct? This primarily affects Bus Éireann as the Dublin Bus routes have largely been upgraded in recent years. Is it the case that some local authorities are better than others? We want to be prescriptive in the report that we will produce regarding what we think needs to be done. It would be useful for us to hear from the witnesses on what their engagement is like on this and whether it is uniform throughout the country.

Reference was made to customer surveys. These have always driven me nuts. Such surveys are great for people who use buses and trains but people who cannot access services or who have limited access but who want services cannot be surveyed and, therefore, transport companies are not capturing everybody. How can everybody be captured in a survey?

I understand the capacity issue faced by Bus Éireann. I have engaged with the company frequently in recent months about this. Are there design issues? It is suggested that four seats must be taken out. It must be possible to overcome design issues in the new fleet to provide flexibility in using the disabled space on a bus. What is the experience in other countries? This information would enable us to make recommendations on these design issues to make buses more flexible. We do not want a scenario where spaces are empty and people are not using them. However, we cannot have a discriminatory service either.

I refer to the contracts and commercial tendering through the NTA for some routes.

In terms of disability, is there a like-with-like approach in terms of the fleet when tenders are being examined or is a different standard required depending on who is seeking it? I would welcome clarification on that because issues have taken us by surprise in terms of remuneration and historical pension requirements and I would like to hear about the experience in terms of disability access on commercial routes.

Deputy Munster made the point about staff not being trained on the use of electronic lifts. Is additional training required? One does not want a scenario where one has the facility but it cannot be used because training has not been provided. I will leave it at that.