Dr. Neil Walker:

It is a pity that Deputy Dooley is not here. He made two comments; that business is not doing enough and could be doing more; and that the problem is all about litter. Businesses are doing more than we advertise, and we are very strongly committed to the polluter pays principle. Ms O'Brien and I sit on the water forum, and she can testify that I have been quite outspoken on the polluter pays principle in the face of some people. Let us not get into the water charge debate though.

We have supported the EPA's waste prevention programme with a 75% full-time executive since 2010. We have provided consultation to hundreds of companies in effectively promoting resource efficiency. Dozens of them have done resource efficiency assessments. We are planning a big campaign on this issue in 2018. That has now morphed into a circular economy role. We have a circular economy executive which is virtually full time. We will run member surveys to determine a baseline and another survey at the end of the year, to see if we can change hearts and minds. The circular economy is a huge opportunity and we want to avail of it. There could be first-mover advantages.

Greenhouse gas is a minor issue in this regard. If we could increase the recycling of high-density polyethylene, HDP, in bottles, we might get an extra 10,000 tonnes or 15,000 tonnes. If it cost €10 million or €20 million a year to do it, that equates to €1,000 per tonne. An equivalent carbon tax would collapse the economy. The greenhouse gas argument is not the major one. Litter is a huge problem, but if the Government is to spend €10 million or €20 million a year in running costs, with set-up costs further to that, it raises the question of what could be done with that money that would be more effective in reducing litter?

Litter is a scourge. I bloody hate it. I would like to quote one of Deputy Lawless's Senatorial colleagues, Senator Catherine Ardagh. She spoke in the Seanad on 10 May 2017, talking about Dublin City Council and litter, and we wholly agree with what she said. The Senator remarked:

" In 2014, there were 18 litter wardens in Dublin city but we now only have 16. There were 2,295 fines issued, 698 fines paid and 542 prosecutions for failure to pay on-the-spot fines, of which only 44 were successful. It seems from the statistics that no one was prosecuted either summarily or on indictment."

That is not intended to be a criticism of Dublin City Council. If the council had more money, it could employ more enforcement. Why are there no council employees going up and down the beaches on Segways? If we want to stop litter, we must deal with it as a litter problem.

I have one more point in response to Mr. Clancy's remarks about Norway. Our packaging recycling rate is higher than Norway's. Over all packaging, our rate is 68% while Norway's is 56%. Some 57% of plastics in Norway are incinerated. For Ireland to be more like Norway might please President Trump, but it would not necessarily make us any better at recycling. In the area of plastic packaging, we are roughly on a par with Norway. According to 2014 data, the most recent we have, Norway recycles 36.1% while Ireland's rate is about 0.5% lower than that. As much as I love Norway, I am not sure it is a role model that is any better than what we currently do.