Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 14 December 2017

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach

Paradise Papers (Resumed): Allied Irish Banks

9:30 am

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. Byrne for his opening statement on these matters which arise in the context of the Panama Papers. As the chief executive of a major Irish financial institution which has been bailed out by taxpayers, what is his view of the disclosure in the Panama Papers of the widespread tax evasion on which they have shone a light?

Does Mr. Byrne have a view on that matter? While he has said the bank's activities in Jersey and the Isle of Man are long over, are there other jurisdictions or arrangements in place in which the bank continues to facilitate wealthy individuals or businesses in arranging their affairs in such a way as to avoid tax in this jurisdiction?

Mr. Byrne has described the services as including deposit, lending and trust services. Will he give us an indication of their capital value? He has stated bank deposits were in the realm of the figure of £2.458 billion in 2008. Is he aware of what happened to these bank deposits subsequently? During the crash were they moved to another jurisdiction or were people bringing them back here? Does Mr. Byrne have an indication of the capital value of trust services? Were the lending services to facilitate back-to-back loan facilities where, for instance, people were being given loans for construction in Ireland while using deposits and other assets they may have had offshore, including trust assets in this jurisdiction or offshore, as collateral? My understanding is such a practice would have been extensive at the time. I draw a contrast between ordinary bank customers and those who may have been in a position to facilitate this practice.

Not too long before this particular episode occurred, the bank provided services for many Irish individuals who were persuaded by their local bank manager that they should have a DIRT, deposit interest retention tax, type account in their friendly AIB branch on the Isle of Man and in other jurisdictions. How many of the accounts involved were business and commercial accounts and how many were held by ordinary people? In banking terms, the sum of £2.458 billion may not have been significant in the context of the bank's overall balance sheet at the time. However, to most ordinary customers of the bank, it was an enormous sum at a time when the country was in severe difficulty.

The bank made significant losses from 2008 on which are now deferred tax assets. Recently it gave an indication of their value at approximately €3 billion. Will Mr. Byrne advise the committee as to how long it will be before the bank will pay any corporation tax? Does he find it acceptable or surprising or is he simply just grateful that the bank will not have to pay corporation tax and that essentially it is left to its choice? Does it operate in any other jurisdiction which does not have an offshore avoidance structure and where it does not incur some local corporation tax or equivalent tax liabilities?

Will Mr. Byrne update us on how the situation for those unfortunate enough to have been caught by the tracker mortgage issue is being resolved? There will also be further questions about those in difficulty with their mortgages and where the bank is at on this matter.

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