Dr. Katriona O'Sullivan:

No. If I had the answer to that I believe my life's work would be done. The Chair stated there have been changes in government and changes in policies but some places remain as they are. I will make a few observations on that. The people who end up making the decisions are so distant from those communities that those decisions should be questioned. We all have to meet metrics and prove we are good. Politicians are in a similar situation in that they have to remain successful. The people who vote for them are not necessarily those people. We are in a culture where the incentive is not always there. The feeling is there - I feel it from the Chairman - to have uplift but the meaningful investment is not always there. The decisions are made by the wrong people. Someone like me is invited here to have a conversation but how close I would get to this meeting if I was still there? It would not happen.

Regarding welfare mindset, when I told a friend that I had got into Trinity College, she asked me if I would lose my social welfare benefits. I told her that I did not know because I did not ask. There is no malice in that. People are not living in poverty thinking they want to take from this and have a free life. There is no level of consciousness around it. Sometimes the assumption that it is a choice or there is a negativity around it makes it difficult to relate to the people because they are defensive and are being accused of something they are not necessarily doing. I do not know if there is anything that can be done; it is just my observation.

It is possible to do some things. We need to showcase success in a way that does not make the person responsible for their own success. A few months ago a newspaper article referred to me as having been aged 15, homeless and pregnant, and making a change in my life. I did not make a change in my life on my own; a lot of things were in place to put me where I am. I am very grateful that the Trinity access programme and lone-parent benefit were in place for me and that I got rent allowance. There was a whole structure. There was some of my own individual input but we need to create environments where people have all the supports to move and then showcase that, rather than making individuals responsible on their own, because they are not responsible. My family, who are still in the same mindset, do not choose that; it is chosen for them and there is no way out. When we herald people like Senator Ruane, me and others, it looks like it is easy but it is not. It has been a very tough battle. One of my suggestions would be to create an environment of support and showcase how it is done overall and not individually.

As for the mindset of the Trinity access programme, it is very hard to change an elite institution like Trinity College. I have heard highly negative things said about working-class people even in theatres where I lecture. I am one of those people. I have heard really derogatory terms. The motive in the Trinity access programme is to get as many as possible in and then have them infiltrate the system in some way. I do not know if the same can be done in communities in order that more individuals are changed and are supported to stay in their community in a more meaningful way. I know people like Senator Ruane and me, along with certain politicians, are regarded as a token gesture of equality in terms of the voice that asks "What about the poor people?". It is about supporting people to remain in their community and be a success story but I do not have the answers. However, education and supporting people to think critically and reflect are key to change. If we improved the education system within those communities, it would be a good step towards change.