Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I will get the data on that for Deputy Kelleher. While I am digging that out, I will address section 38 and 39 bodies. Section 38 bodies are covered. If one works for a section 38 body, one's status is similar to that of a public servant. Section 39 bodies, as the Deputy and I know, are in quite a different situation. We have a number of section 39 organisations which provide services that our citizens benefit from. The people working in them do not have the same status of being a public servant. Their employment situation is legally different and I think that is fair. I am conscious that a number of these organisations have outlined to me, and I am sure to Deputy Kelleher and many Members of the Oireachtas, their concerns that they had paycuts during the difficult years and that they may not be in a position to be competitive in recruiting staff to provide services. No service should be cut because we provide grants and service level agreements for specific services to be provided. The Taoiseach outlined in exchange with Deputy Kelleher's leader in the Dáil a few weeks ago that he asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and I to engage in this and see if a way forward can be found.

The Supplementary Estimate that I am bringing today does not relate to section 39 bodies but we are examining the issue. It is important to say that section 39 bodies are different. They are grant aided. The HSE has service level agreements in place with voluntary providers in exchange for a level of service but employees of section 39 organisations are not public servants and therefore are not encompassed by public service stability agreements. This means that they were not subjected in a legal sense to the financial emergency measures in the public interest, FEMPI, legislation which imposed pay reductions. I understand, and have heard from many of them, that for a variety of reasons, pay was cut in those organisations. I am committed to working with Government colleagues to try to find a process or way forward for what is a complex issue but it is not part of this Supplementary Estimate.

I will send the Deputy a note on specific expenditure for the children's hospital project.