Gabrielle McFadden (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

At our previous meeting, I was shocked that the witnesses were unable to tell us where the €1 billion in annual funding for mental health services is spent in the various community health organisations. We heard today, however, that additional funding of €500 million is required. I do not understand how the witnesses can arrive at that figure.

On recruitment, we heard that money was not an issue. People working in mental health services tell me, however, that part of the problem in terms of staff retention is conditions, including the management and organisation of their workplaces. Who develops the rules and procedures for running a department? Some front-line staff argue that the buck is always passed and there are too few front-line staff. People decide to pass on problems because they believe it is not their job to deal with them. This passing of the buck causes great stress among front-line staff. It is not appropriate that they have to work in such conditions and I would not blame any member of staff for leaving their job. Who is responsible for management?

We heard there are teams in place nationwide but not all positions have been filled. How many management teams are in place? Have all the positions on those teams be filled? I suggest that all the positions on management teams have been filled and all the front-line positions are not being filled.

I accept what Ms O'Connor said on agency staff. How much would an agency nurse earn compared with a nurse employed directly by the Health Service Executive? Why are the mental health services unable to recruit psychologists? Will Ms O'Connor outline the pay and conditions for psychologists compared with pay and conditions for psychiatrists? What are their salaries and how much would psychologists and psychiatrists earn in the United Kingdom? I suggest that psychiatrists are paid much more than psychologists. We need to recruit more psychologists and more talk therapy and less medication is required. I also suggest psychologists in the United Kingdom have better pay and conditions than psychologists here. We need to address this issue. We must also stop constantly asking for more funding.

According to the opening statement, HSE psychology services have traditionally been underresourced, yet Ms O'Connor was unable to tell the joint committee where the €1 billion in annual funding was being spent. The service is now asking for a further €500 million in funding. We must stop focusing on how much money we do not have and focus instead on delivering value for money for current funding.

At our last meeting, I asked for data on clinical outcomes in order that members could identify which areas are performing well and which are underperforming or underachieving. I have not received a reply, although I thank the witnesses for the other documents they submitted to us with the replies. I ask for specific answers to the questions I have asked.