Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

It would probably be a more balanced discussion if they were here, which would be very helpful. It would probably be a more challenging discussion too in terms of many of the issues about which we are talking because they impact the unionist community as much as they impact the nationalist community.

Deputy O'Sullivan raised the issue of Justice for the Forgotten and the Hooded Men. I can read out the official answers here, although I suspect she has heard them before. First of all, we want to acknowledge at the outset those across the House, including several members of this committee, who work on a cross-party basis with the Government on this issue and their tireless efforts for Justice for the Forgotten. I know they met last month. I have spoken directly to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, James Brokenshire, about this issue a number of times. I understand that the request from the Police Ombudsman of Northern Ireland is under active consideration, that advice has been sought on legal issues arising and that An Garda Síochána and the Department of the Taoiseach are in ongoing contact with the office of the Police Ombudsman of Northern Ireland. We have indicated our desire to facilitate the investigations of his office as far as possible subject to the requirements of the law.

I am aware of the committee's ongoing concern about conditions, particularly for prisoners in the separated regime, in Maghaberry Prison, which I suspect is one of the prisons Deputy O'Sullivan raised concerns about. My officials at the Belfast secretariat continue to engage in an ongoing basis with a range of interlocutors, including the Northern Ireland Office, the Northern Ireland Prison Service, the members of the stock-take group, the International Committee of the Red Cross and Red Crescent and others, to discuss, explore and encourage progress. They are also in regular touch with the Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland, whose most recent report on the conditions in the prison issued in August 2017 noted that health and education provision is improving and that levels of disorder and violence were generally low. The report found that there were still significant challenges around the separated regime.

With regard to the Hooded Men, I am aware of the recent decision by the High Court in Belfast to quash a decision by the PSNI not to take further steps to identify and prosecute those responsible for the torture of 14 men in Northern Ireland in 1971. Decisions such as this underline the urgency of achieving progress with the implementation of the Stormont House Agreement legacy framework, about which we have spoken extensively. This framework is intended to focus on the needs of victims and survivors so that they would no longer have to seek the vindication of their basic Article 2 right to an effective investigation under the European Convention on Human Rights through arduous court processes. I understand the Deputy's frustration and her request that these issues move ahead in a speedier manner than they have heretofore but we are trying to progress them. In the context of the Stormont House Agreement legacy process, there is an opportunity for a major step forward regarding a number of these cases. I hope and think that we will be able to make that happen.

With regard to the comments about citizens' rights, it might be wrong for me to talk about individual cases here. We are working through the legal challenges and complexity of how we are going to deal with the citizens' rights elements of the Good Friday Agreement just like we are trying to work through the complexity of some of the North-South co-operation and how it would function in different Brexit scenarios. The one thing I would say is that the Prime Minister has been crystal clear in her language in terms of the British Government's commitment to the full implementation of all aspects of the Good Friday Agreement. This is not a picking and choosing exercise regarding what is possible. I have heard commentary from others who have said that they will try to ensure North-South co-operation works where possible. As far as I am concerned, that is not what is committed to in terms of the aspirational and very welcome and positive statements we have heard from the British Prime Minister regarding full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement post-Brexit. We want to work with the British Government and help it find a route to get to where we need to go to make sure those aspirations become a reality. That is why we have asked for more clarity in phase one of these negotiations rather than allowing this thing to be kicked off in the hope it will be solved in the context of a broader trade agreement or future trading relationship.

That for us is a jump in the dark that we are not willing to take without knowing where we are going to land or without at the very least having much more clarity on the parameters of the landing zone. This is the clarity that we need to give the Good Friday Agreement the protection that it needs.

I cannot yet give the member as complete an answer on citizens' rights issues as he might like. I take the point, however, on training and on ensuring the provision of a mechanism or portal whereby Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland can feel that they have space in which they can ask questions and get detailed answers on where they stand and the implications and consequences of Brexit for them as it becomes clearer what it is going to look like. The first thing we have to do is to try to support a negotiation process that puts these pieces together in order that we can try to provide some certainty. We will then provide the staff and training needed to make sure that citizens can know where they stand and get access to their rights.

In response to Senator Craughwell's point about road haulage, I believe that approximately 86% to 88% of all goods that arrive on the island of Ireland as freight do so via the United Kingdom. This is obviously a big deal from a trade perspective. Ireland as an economy is a huge net exporter, so Britain is both a big market for us but also a very important bridge to the European Union mainland. The British Government has tried to be helpful with regard to the various international transport directives that could potentially facilitate ease of access across Britain so as to reach European Union markets. Britain is a physical landmass between ourselves and markets such as those in France and in the Benelux countries, so we will of course look for practical solutions to this. Depending on what a future trade relationship, agreement or partnership might look like, however, we could find that the infrastructure between Dover and Calais might be totally overloaded over a very short space of time if, for example, new checking systems are required at British ports. This whole process will need to be redesigned, meaning that Ireland will need to plan for other contingencies in order that we can get our products to market.

We do not want a situation in which the impression is given that we are simply going to isolate Britain and diversify into a new trading relationship that does not involve the United Kingdom. We want to trade with Britain. We want a strong British economy that is good for Ireland. We want a very strong, barrier-free and easy access trading relationship between Britain and the EU as a whole, which would be good for Britain, Ireland, and the EU. We can really only get into the detail of that, however, when we get into the phase 2 discussions and we still have real work to do before that will be possible.

I made some comments earlier about regulatory divergence, which obviously poses problems for many of the cross-Border bodies. Much confusion will be created if such bodies end up operating under two different regulatory models. Some of those bodies also rely on political decision-making and direction, which they do not currently have because we do not have devolved institutions in Northern Ireland that can give them that certainty. When it comes to programme spending and promotion and so on, most of those bodies are required to give the same attention north of the Border as they do south of it. Without the political direction and certainty that they need from devolved institutions, it becomes more and more difficult for these North-South bodies to do the work they need to do. Brexit certainly poses challenges, then, but so too does the absence of a functioning devolved Government structure. This is a major problem that we all urgently need to address.

I do not accept that the prospect of a so-called third-class Irishman, or indeed woman, will arise and we must all ensure that it does not. Something I have not talked about today, and which is a good news story, is the progress on the common travel area. Since 1923 or so British and Irish Governments have had an arrangement which is as much a recognition of the citizenship of each others' countries as a common travel area. Irish people can work, study and get access to social welfare in Britain. I went to university in England myself so the British taxpayer paid for some of my education. There are plenty of British people studying in Ireland, meanwhile, with the Irish taxpayer contributing to their education. I can vote in British elections and they can vote in at least some of ours. We can also carry pensions between the two countries. We have a special relationship and recognition of each other's citizens and it is my view that this will remain intact through these negotiations. This has only happened, by the way, because of the real solidarity from our EU colleagues, who have accepted that Ireland is different and that we are more integrated with Britain than any other EU member state. This is why the common travel area will continue to be protected. This will address many of the issues that the Senator raised. Even after Brexit, there will be no impediment to any Irish person moving to Britain or working or accessing welfare or health services there. The same goes for British people in Ireland. It is important to say that rather than to try to categorise people into different tiers in terms of rights and access.