Eoghan Murphy (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Barry. On the statistics outlined in The Irish Timesthis morning, I have not seen either the data or the analysis. However, they do not stand up to our data in terms of what we know is happening and what we published in the second quarter of the year regarding the social housing programme. If we are looking at the social housing programme in the context of what is happening, there are some 162 schemes and these involve the building of 2,711 homes . A further 110 schemes, involving 1,106 homes, have practically been completed. At various stages prior to completion, we have a few hundred schemes coming through with a few thousand homes, which gives us the overall figure of 11,000 under the current construction status figures. When a newspaper article refers to less than 1% of houses built since the start of 2016, I really do not understand what figures they are relying on, what they are excluding or what they are including. When we talk about meeting the needs of the tens of thousands on the social housing lists, let us look at the targets we have set in Rebuilding Ireland. There is an allocation of €6 billion until 2021 to meet all those needs.

Next year, we will build 3,800 social housing homes between local authorities and housing bodies. That will be almost double what we will build this year, which is 2,000. When we include voids and Part V units, it is another 1,200 units, which will bring us to 5,000. We are going to acquire another 900 homes into the social housing stock, which brings us 5,900 and will long-term lease a further 2,000 units. That is 7,900 secure social housing homes for people next year. Obviously, there are other needs we need to meet and we use things like the housing assistance payment, HAP, to do that. If we look over the lifetime of Rebuilding Ireland and consider what we want to build, to lease in the long term and to acquire, as well the voids we want to convert and the Part V units that will come in, we are talking about 50,000 homes thanks to the additional €500 million that was acquired in the course of the capital review I undertook with the Minister of Finance earlier this year. That is 50,000 secure sustainable social housing homes over the course of the period from 2016 to 2021, in addition to meeting the needs of others who have needs on the social housing list. They will be met through the various supports including the HAP. Next, we will be talking a bit about what the actual numbers are and whether it is 91,000 or a bit higher or a bit lower. In the programme we have, however, we do not refer to timeframes of 80 years or 60 years. We will do a significant amount of work between now and 2021 because of the priority the Government places on meeting the social housing needs of the citizens. If considers the last two years of the Rebuilding Ireland programme and what we will be doing in respect of building, acquiring and leasing versus relying on the private rental market, we will be doing more on the build, acquisition and leasing side than on the HAP side. As for claims that we rely too heavily on the private rental sector, we will bring the balance back to the responsibility of the State in respect of social housing delivery.

When we look beyond 2021 - I am already doing this - to ascertain how we can make sure in future that we are protecting the needs of citizens by directly delivering social housing for local authorities and housing bodies and though other means, we aspire to a position in which 20% to 25% of all housing output in a given year is social housing provided directly by the State. That is what we want to do and by doing that we will make sure that the people who are most vulnerable in our society in terms of their housing needs will always be protected, regardless of whether there is another housing crisis or another property bust in the future. That is a very important goal that I wish to achieve in the Department. Next week or in the week after, in another important point on which I touched in my opening statement, we will publish the targets for next year for all local authorities in order that there can be full transparency for Deputies and councillors as to what their own local authority is meant to achieve in respect of social housing output. I will make that available to everyone in order that we can see what we need to achieve together.

On the comments and question about the Taoiseach and Conor Skehan, the outgoing chair of the Housing Agency, we have a homelessness crisis. One thing I have said since I first took up this role and was asked to do this job on behalf of the Government and the people of Ireland is that it is very important to continue to talk about this issue, that is, to talk about the actual causes of homelessness and the very difficult circumstances people are experiencing. While all members of this committee might be very familiar with it, some people are not that familiar with the problem and do not know the level of difficulty that some are experiencing. We have had a tradition and a culture in this country of hiding difficulties in society and challenges we have faced. That has been the way for far too long, that is, to turn an blind eye or to try to put something to one side. It is very important that the homelessness crisis is front and centre in public debate and that people are aware that far too many people - families and individuals - are experiencing extremely difficult circumstances with regard to both their housing needs and other problems such as mental health and addiction issues. The Government must make sure as a priority that it is putting in every resource it can to help these people.

In September, while people were going back to school, one very brave family went on the radio to tell their story of what that was like for the mother and her daughters. It really touched a chord with people throughout the country. They realised, if they had not done so previously, that in Irish society today, homelessness unfortunately is hitting and hurting people it had not previously. That is why we are investing so much to try to support families who have found themselves in these very difficult circumstances. That is why Deputies will have an opportunity later today to discuss this issue in the context of the Labour Party Bill before them. That is why every week, both before and since the Dáil returned after the summer, we have been discussing housing and homelessness issues and the difficulty people have in that situation. To be frank about what the Taoiseach said at the weekend, he was asked a question about homelessness in Ireland being high by international standards. He responded that it was low by international standards and in the same breath, he clarified that regardless of the international comparisons, we have a responsibility to people in the country who are experiencing these difficult circumstances.

It is important to know where we stand internationally because it is important that we can have an objective view of our policies and whether they are working. All of the objective evidence tells us that by international comparisons, our rates of homelessness are low. That points to policies that are working in this country, some that are working and some that are not. When Conor Skehan talks about things being normal, he is talking about people understanding that homelessness is a crisis that many Western economies and societies face at present. We are not exceptional in that case. However, there is nothing normal for a family or an individual who are homeless today and there is nothing normal about how we work with the voluntary organisations and the local authorities to help those people. We must, of course, help them with compassion and with care. That is why when I talk about helping families who are in hotels and have been in hubs and when people ask me about timelines, I talk about being sensitive to their needs and delivering a tailored response to make sure that we have the greatest care because for a family or an individual to find themselves in homelessness - we have all met people who unfortunately are in these circumstances - it is incredibly stressful and difficult and if their needs are not met with care, we could do damage inadvertently or they could find themselves suffering for a very long time into their adult lives and their future lives, which we do not want. That is what we are trying to do here. There is no attempt to minimise this as a problem. I talk about-----