Rónán Mullen (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome our guests and speakers. Perhaps they could give us some assistance on the figures for all of this with regard to the demographics and where they are going, if possible. We heard earlier that there are approximately 195,000 people giving care at an average of 38 hours per week. It is approximately 6.6 million hours of care. There is a larger number receiving care. In some cases, there will be a second person being given care by the same person and, of course, there are people living alone who are receiving home help services to a greater or lesser degree from outside. Within that figure of 195,000 carers there are informal carers and those receiving some class of care allowance. I said earlier that money is not the primary lens through which this issue should be viewed, but the witnesses have made it clear that there is no reality to our aspirations and vision unless the resources are in place. Is there an overall figure?

I realise it is a difficult thing to assess and that there might be different metrics. I asked the officials earlier if they had a figure but they were not in a position to give me one. That is fair enough, but the State ought to be in a position to estimate how much carers are saving the State through the work they do. Whether their work is completely informal and not remunerated or one takes into account the carer's allowance they receive, it is far less than it would cost the State to give that full-time care however one measures it, be it in the context of nursing home costs or factoring in an hour-by-hour cost of giving care. Can the witnesses help us by giving us a sense of how much carers are saving the State, to put it in those terms?

Linking that to what Professor O'Shea spoke about regarding the demographics, the rubber is going to hit the road in a much more intense way in the future than is the case at present. Where are we going in terms of the demographics by 2030, 2040 and 2050 relative to where we are now? The witnesses are recommending a social insurance system for the funding of all that. Could they outline what they see as the benefits of that? Is it to do with the ring-fencing, that if there is a social insurance system the money paid by taxpayers in that way is therefore ring-fenced for spending on care, be it home care or residential? Are the witnesses thinking of it specifically for community-based care? I presume that is the case.

I realise there is a great deal covered by those questions. I agree on the need for personalised and responsive services. I and my family are very involved in a care giving situation and one hears about other people's experiences. My mother told me recently about a conversation she had with another carer who was informed by the person coming in, with the best will in the world, that they do not do this, that or the other. Eventually the lady asked in frustration, "Well, what do you do?" Everybody's needs are different, so I empathise with that comment because it brought that thought back to me.