Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 9 November 2017

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government

Local Government Finance: Discussion

9:00 am

Photo of Victor BoyhanVictor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank Mr. Lemass and Ms Larkin for coming in. The two papers were excellent. They were very simple with no ambiguity. We will clearly be leaving here with a greater, crystal clear understanding of the two relevant functions and roles. I thank the witnesses sincerely for that. It is sometimes very hard to break something down to a simple message and the witnesses have certainly done so well.

I have a question for Ms Larkin. I welcome her. I know she has not been in her job for long since I had reason to contact her recently. I am delighted that she is here. I am familiar with outputs of audits, audit opinions, audit reports, management letters and even the role of elected members with regard to audit committees. The big issue is what sort of teeth Ms Larkin, as director of audit, has in the local government audit service. I have read local government audits and reports for many years. I cited a story earlier today. I will not single one local authority out because I do not think that would be fair, but I will single out a recurring issue. Ms Larkin's auditors, in their successes, have raised the issue in local audit opinions and sought clarification about it from chief executives. It relates to the property registers that local authorities are meant to maintain and their requirement to transpose these registers of very valuable assets. Many of these registers of these public assets, held in trust, are incomplete and it is appalling. Ms Larkin's organisation has identified the need to transpose these. Every year, it has raised questions for chief executives and they have come back with a standard one-line answer about resources, staffing issues, etc. It has gone on for four years in one local authority and for three years in another. I can cite all of these and send all this detail to the local government audit service. No action has been taken anywhere. When I made contact with these chief executives, they told me that they were doing their best, that there was no money or resources, and to buzz off and stop asking.

I have worked with my group in the Seanad, the Independents, to bring a Bill forward. The heads of it are something to the effect that we will seek to have the Committee of Public Accounts or Comptroller and Auditor and General to co-ordinate this power and bring in these chief executives. I am not sure if that is the best use of resources but I am really trying to find out how effective we can be. What sanctions does Ms Larkin have for a local authority that fails to address the continuous issues Ms Larkin raises in her reports? I found it extraordinary that it went on for four years in a row in one case and that there was no action. Chief executives say that the Local Government Audit Service does not have the power to do anything about them, and it continues to examine them. In some cases, this issue is not raised in the Local Government Audit Service's next report because it clearly changes the focus in an audit and does not continue to raise the same matter. It is frustrating. What can Ms Larkin do about that?

The issue of the audit report being brought to elected members when "next practical" is not good enough and it may need to change. I know Ms Larkin is dealing with the system that is in place. I was dealing with her office two weeks ago to inquire why many of the reports of completed audits were not up on the councils' websites. I suggest that when she completes her audit of a local authority, she might send a copy of the report to local authority members. If there is any legal or legislative impediment, I would like to hear from her. Every member should have the report. It should not be sitting in someone's drawer waiting for a time that is suitable. In one case, I was told that the local authority's audit committee would not be meeting for three months so the report could not be brought to members for three months. That is too late, particularly if the Local Government Audit Service is producing strong recommendations. I suggest that Ms Larkin consider circulating that and asking the chief executive to place that on the agenda for the next council meeting. We know there is one every month. I thank Ms Larkin. She has given us a very comprehensive paper. She might address what sanctions the local government audit service has to make people deliver with regard to its concerns.

Comments

No comments

Log in or join to post a public comment.