Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Yes. Last week, I drove to Belfast to meet people because it is not possible to meet the vulture funds. Capita, a company which operates in different parts of Ireland, is dealing with the issue. To cite one case with which I dealt, a man who is suffering from cancer had a loan on which €33,000 was owed. The figure had increased to €40,000 when Capita bought the loan with interest. When I proposed repaying €25,000, Capita, in addition to refusing the offer, this morning informed me that it planned to proceed with a sale in the middle of negotiations. This is the type of reckless behaviour in which the vulture funds are engaging. While I thank the Minister for his offer of a meeting, the time has come to name these people in the Dáil, where Deputies have protection, and highlight what they are doing because this practice will result in a suicide.

I concur with the point Deputy Kenny made. The vulture funds bought these loans at a low rate. While we do not have a problem with them making money, we do not want people to be screwed.

Chairman:If the Minister does not mind, I would like to add to this discussion because the issue of vulture funds, which I intended raising towards the end of the meeting, is highly relevant and has been raised a number of times in this debate. The loans we are discussing are generally managed by regulated entities such as Capita. The problem people are experiencing is that it is virtually impossible to meet representatives of these organisations and difficult to obtain documents from them if one is putting together a paper trail to try to find a resolution. When one finally meets their representatives, the culture one experiences is shocking.

Young people in a bank have been conditioned to stonewall people and be stony-faced when meeting customers who are clearly experiencing mental distress as a result of the issue they are experiencing. It is not the case that they cannot negotiate but that Capita, on behalf of the various funds, will not negotiate, which is truly shocking. I have attended some of these meetings. I have also attended the Master's Court on a number of occasions. The most recent hearing I attended with a client had 138 cases listed for Allied Irish Banks. The Master of the High Court extended the time for dealing with these cases on foot of a request to do so by the banks. This only adds further anxiety and trauma to an already wrecked family. One must see this to believe it.

The same circumstances prevail in the registrar's court. Unfortunately, the banks are facilitating this practice because it suits them to do so. AIB and Bank of Ireland are serious offenders in this regard. I raised with the Minister a case involving the sale next Saturday of properties owned by the Morrissey family, which tells us everything we need to know. The family has sufficient funds outside AIB to purchase the properties in question. They also have a track record going back 100 years and are working a number of quarries. The families of approximately 100 families rely on them. Once the properties go to a public auction, the cartel in quarrying, namely, the three big powers in the quarrying game, will buy the quarries and close them down. As a result, the cost to local authorities of road construction and housing will shoot up because it is controlled by three companies. I do not say this lightly but because I have been observing this process in this committee for a long time.

In my correspondence with the Minister, I asked him to stop the sale of the Morrissey properties from proceeding and allow the family to buy them back at the value the banks say they are worth. This would protect competition in the marketplace, 100 jobs and the services and goods supplied into the quarries in question. That is all I am asking. I am not asking anyone to show favouritism but simply to recognise that there is a reckless cartel in the banks and vulture funds and among the large companies that are wrecking the lives of individuals.

This committee tried on more than one occasion to have various funds - the main players - appear before us to explain how they operate and what they do. They refused point blank to do so. I have dealt with these funds face to face and I am shocked by them. Capita, a regulated entity which is supposed to act properly, is even worse than the vulture funds. I am interested in hearing from Deputies Fitzmaurice and Mattie McGrath and perhaps other Deputies who have attended these meetings.

It is truly shocking that this bad culture of banking has been handed on intact to the next generation of young bankers. The country is suffering immensely for this reason. I am not being extreme about this or taking it to the edge. However, I have seen this often and, as a public representative, I find it disturbing when my efforts to do something about it in the Oireachtas fail. It was for this reason that I contacted the Minister directly on the Morrissey case.

That is a real example of what is happening. People appeal - they do not do so lightly - to individuals like me and the Minister to intervene. As we own the bank, the sale should be stalled while negotiations are ongoing. Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice has made a valid point. As negotiations are ongoing with Capita, on behalf of the vulture funds, such institutions escalate their efforts to sell properties to put pressure on the individual or individuals concerned.

I shall tell the Minister what I said in the Dáil. I shall not say it in an argumentative manner but will simply outline the facts. I sat in front of three representatives of Capita with the man at the centre of this case. Both he and his family are completely and utterly broken. They are suffering a terrible mental illness because of it. All the man can do is give Capita permission to sell every piece of property he owns. When the representatives asked him about the residual debt, he said he could not do anything about it because he did not have any money. Then a young girl seated behind the desk reached over and said to him: "I want you to ask your father, mother, brothers, sisters, community and credit union, but we want money, money, money." That is exactly the way she said it and I found it horrific listening to her.

I shall finish by saying I am disturbed by what the banks are doing and by what has happened between AIB and Morrissey's. I am sorry if I went on a little, but I had outline what was truly happening. It had to be said.