Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I am sure that the Minister knows that the premise on which that particular 2014 report was produced is not appropriate to the dilemma now faced by this country on this matter. We have already had a number of examples in this debate of prominent companies and structures of one kind or another which have had the happy result for their owners of being able to avoid paying practically any corporation tax.

If the Minister tells me that the shops on the main street of a town or the SMEs or the like on industrial estates and in warehouses on the outskirts of towns are paying between 7% and 11%, I have no difficulty in accepting that. They are not able to avail of the types of structure available to certain categories which we have already discussed during the debate on the Bill.

Second, I did not say Ireland was the worst. That is not my view. I said something different, that the country's reputation was being shredded at a time when we needed friends. Yes, people might admire some of what is happening in Ireland, but the fact that we have some of the largest global companies and that we have a finance sector and a number of others that involve not SMEs but the very wealthy in very effective tax avoidance and tax evasion schemes ought to be of serious concern to the Minister. It ought to be of particular concern because of what is coming down the road post-Brexit and may start within the transition period, as we do not know how long it will be. It is also something that is gnawing at the foundations of democracy. In the long run it is a short-sighted view to try to argue, as the Minister is doing, that we should continue in this way. During the last Government it was part of the reason Ireland signed up to the OECD process, with which not everybody agreed. The views of Fine Gael on this issue are very different from those of the Labour Party and it was a difficult debate in that Government. However, it resulted in a process that improved Irish compliance with international tax norms while retaining Ireland's attraction as a foreign direct investment location.

The report to which the Minister referred is interesting, but I would not put too much faith in it addressing the types of issue I am addressing. I am not addressing people and companies in Ireland who are tax compliant and pay their fair share. Nobody has a problem with any of them as they are providing employment throughout the country. However, I do have a problem with situations where zero or close to zero - we had an example this morning - ends up being the contribution they make to this society. All I am suggesting is a simple mechanism. It does not have to be at a high, punitive rate. It also means that the Revenue Commissioners would be put in a stronger position to deal with those companies and get behind how such situations are facilitated.

On a wider basis, the country must respond to what is in contained the Paradise Papers and what was previously in the Panama Papers. I had discussions on this issue with the Minister's predecessor and the then Taoiseach. It is not avoidable in the long term. This is a very simple mechanism. The Minister can go to the OECD and the ECOFIN meetings and say we are looking at bringing it into effect. Fine Gael is part of the European People's Party in the European Union. It is a union of very conservative parties. The Labour Party belongs to the group of socialist parties. There are genuine differences that have to be resolved in the interests of the continuation and viability of the European Union.

I am very disappointed by the Minister's response. He made a charge about me that I did not make. I ask him to note this. However, I did say our reputation was being shredded. I am a strong supporter of Ireland in attracting international investment. I have worked with multinational companies, both professionally and politically, in my career. In the long run they cannot avoid what is happening to them in the exposure of their tax avoidance. The country needs to address that issue and this is an element of doing it. There were good examples in the debate earlier this morning of situations that were broadly unacceptable. This is always a game of catch-up. The Revenue Commissioners simply do not have enough resources to keep up with all of the loopholes as they inevitably develop. Nobody is asking the Minister to be able to see the future, but we must deal with what we know and, whether he Minister likes it, we all know now about the Paradise Papers. Some of it is what we suspected and some of it is material of which we had no knowledge.

This is a very modest proposal to address an important issue for the country. If the Minister wishes to put it into another format, I will be happy to hear what suggestions he might have to make. That has been done previously and it worked out to everybody's advantage.