Mr. Shaun Flanagan:

I get that and I accept the point that the Deputy is making. We think that we have pushed the legislation as far as we can. A lot of the things we are being criticised for, some of them are on a pure evidence basis where we are not necessarily aligned with the Deputy on all of those evidence bases. However, in many cases, if people want a "yes" to all of those medicines, that has to be in the full knowledge that the medicine is cost ineffective. Does the Deputy know what I mean? It is proven beyond doubt that the medicine is cost ineffective. I do not mean to be offensive in anyway but that is the challenge that the HSE faces. When we know that we must consider its consequence for other services and that is the policy and ethical nuance that we are always hanging on. I am not a member of the drugs group but I am there because I have to explain the commercial negotiations and that those are the challenges they actually really struggle with. People genuinely do not want to vote no, they never want to vote no.