Mr. Tony O'Brien:

We would not want to damn all external auditors and put them in the same category as what happened in Console. Such a generalisation would not be good thing to do. In this period, most of the organisations we are looking at on this table are the smaller section 39 agencies, most of which are operating in what would broadly be called the charitable sector. We need collectively to remind ourselves that there has been a move forward in terms of charity sector regulation. The HSE does not have regulatory powers. Clearly, the charities regulator is developing and growing capacity in that area and it may be the more fundamental piece of this jigsaw.

Let us remind ourselves that what we found in Console was not about public funds but about the use of the public's funds, namely, the donated funds. We would be much more comfortable if we operated in an environment where there was a qualifying criterion that we could rely on that was done externally. In the alternative, if the committee is of the view, which it may be, that we need to do much more in this area, I would not object in any way if the Government decided to give us, from resources that did not come from core health services, resources to beef up our internal audit division and other sectors. As it stands, if I were to give Mr. Flynn an extra auditor, I would have to take away a nurse or doctor or some other category of staff. Those are the hard choices that we have to make.