Marc MacSharry (Sligo-Leitrim, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

That is fine. I ask the Chairman to indicate when I have three minutes remaining as I wish to address a couple of issues.

We cannot throw all of these organisations under a bus because we need the services that some of them provide. At the same time, we are in a pitiful position in terms of providing the level of oversight that would give members of the public the peace of mind they are entitled to in respect of expenditure of €4 billion per annum, which a substantial sum of money. If we continue with a process that is, by consensus, insufficient, with Mr. Flynn completing 19 or 20 audits each year, it will take us 113 years to get through all these organisations. The HSE has provided a useful table setting out the audits carried out on 19 organisations, which shows that multiple breaches were recorded in three or more areas in almost 65% of audits. It stands to reason that there is a very serious problem with governance and, potentially, misappropriation of funds in at least some organisations which have been designed to feather the nests of individuals.

This is a matter of grave concern, which requires a wholesale investigation. I mean no disrespect to the witnesses but it appears the HSE is not capable of carrying out such an investigation. An army may well be required to do this given the public interest involved, the €4 billion at stake with the percentage of breaches emerging each year. Last year, the examination carried out by the Comptroller and Auditor General made similar findings. I spent two years locked in a room adjacent to this one discussing banking. This sounds similar to the Central Bank light touch approach which involves learning and teaching rather than imposing sanctions. This approach does not serve us well, as we saw in the difficulties with tracker mortgages this week. We, and those who come after us, will spend the next 113 years identifying the same difficulties. With respect, the Department of Health and Minister must scope out what needs to be done to adequately manage these organisations and have an appropriate system in place. That is my commentary on what we have heard so far.