Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 25 October 2017

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health

General Scheme of Children's Health Bill 2017: Discussion

9:00 am

Ms Eilísh Hardiman:

In response to Deputy O'Connell's question about ward names, we have not moved onto that level yet, although we consider it important that the overall name for the hospital be taken into account. From a design perspective, we are just starting to move into the way-finding stage so it is appropriate that our approach be consistent. There is no desire to represent religious connotations because the new hospital is, if anything, a secular hospital that represents both the population it will serve and contemporary approaches to delivering health care.

Having been the CEO in Tallaght Hospital, I could spend much time talking about the car park there. I completely understand that car parking is an issue. I should, of course, say that the Tallaght car park was designed in accordance to the standards at that time.

I am aware of that from my previous role and am pleased to offer some assurance to the committee in this regard. There are 675 parking spaces allocated for the new children's hospital, which is three times the number available across the existing hospitals. The allocation is based on a robust identification of the needs of the families who will access the new facility. Some 22 of the places will be outside the emergency department, where it will be possible to drop and run. It is important to note that the planning application that was secured includes a stipulation regarding the car park design. An Bord Pleanála sought to have the size of some of the spaces increased, having listened to the concerns of the people who attended the oral hearing. Many of those attendees have children who come with a lot of equipment, chairs, oxygen and so on, which require adequate space to unload, and, in addition, many of the families require large family vehicles to accommodate all that equipment. As I said, the provision regarding parking is a planning stipulation and whichever car park provider secures the contract will have to adhere to it. Members are correct that the existing hospitals include a derogation in respect of parking charges for hardship cases and where children are in hospital on a long-term basis. For the new hospital, we have identified 100 spaces within the car park which will not be taken into account from a business case perspective. In other words, they will be available to parents at a reduced fee or free of charge, depending on circumstances.

In regard to Ronald McDonald House, we see it as a key partner in delivering our plans for children's health care. Many of the children who require hospital treatment, including those from outside Dublin, have long stays. The best international comparators show that charities such as Ronald McDonald House provide important services to families. As part of the planning permission for the new hospital, we have secured approval for a 53-bedroom building right outside the front door which will be available for use by families. We are working with Ronald McDonald House on how to progress the construction of that building and decide how it will operate. The hospital will comprise all single rooms and we will have fantastic facilities within those rooms, including an appropriate bed for parents to sleep in and an en suite bathroom. We recognise the need for a family lounge within the hospital and we have provided for that. There are an additional 30 beds within that area which will include showers and facilities where parents can work, eat and engage in other normal day-to-day activities. We are aware that some of the parents currently attending their children at Crumlin cannot even get to the Ronald McDonald House facility there.

To clarify, when I answered the question in regard to management and adhering to the pay scales, I was simply pointing out that we are very much working within the process that is there. The practice of using fundraising as a top-up to funding of staff costs is not reflective of the policy position within the existing hospitals and not something we want to see. There are challenges in this regard, of course, and we need to work within the parameters defined by pay policies. The board will have an opportunity to discuss any specific challenges in respect of staff recruitment with the Minister for Health and the Minister for Finance, as any good board would do in seeking to secure the best people for its service.

Deputy Durkan referred to safety issues, which are a key consideration of our design. Some of the safety issues we face are unique to hospitals. We already have members of staff in our hospitals who have a legal remit to ensure safety parameters are being adhered to, with those staff being answerable to the chief executive officer of the hospital. I assure members that this safety function has been built into the design of the new hospital and there will be members of staff operating those systems when the hospital begins operation. Moreover, we have undertaken a number of external reviews to provide us with assurances around compliance to standards, particularly those standards that are unique to hospital buildings. This helps to ensure the decisions we are making in the design and building process are in accordance with the recognised standards in health care.

I already spoke about car parking facilities and the importance of ensuring that provision meets the requirements of families. Parents manage to get to our existing hospitals, including Temple Street, for example, which is right in the city centre, but when they get there, parking is the challenge. That is why we have made such an issue of it. An Bord Pleanála accepted our proposals in this regard, which were objectively measured on the basis of future use of the hospital.

I agree there is a huge opportunity around philanthropy, but it needs to be managed very well. We have a good basis there with the existing foundations but there is a chance now to lead out on this issue in a way that will ensure we can avail of any opportunities that arise in a manner similar to other international children's hospitals.

On the question of the composition of the hospital board, I take the point that it is important that the voice of staff be heeded. Regarding the competencies of the current board, three of the members have come from health systems, including paediatric health systems, where quality and safety are very much the focus. That is at the core of what we are trying to do from a services perspective. The board is there to provide strategic direction and ensure good governance and oversight. We envisage implementing clinical directorates and chief medical officer posts that will provide very clear clinical leadership and executive leadership of services. Those clinical and executive staff will be in attendance at board meetings and a structure will be in place whereby their voices will be heard and the board will have an opportunity to seek out their views.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly asked about the difference between core and non-core staff. As we know, there are very formal arrangements in place for how one staffs the public sector, and we will be adhering to those requirements. Of course, there is a multiplicity of posts within hospitals which have a big impact in terms of making the services to patients better. People's experience of hospital is reflective of all the staff they meet there, from the first person they meet when they come into the car park to the last person they see before they leave. We will work through the process that is there to ensure the mix is correct. Any challenges that arise are often to do with communications with staff as opposed to their being any reflection of the competencies of core clinical staff.

On fundraising and philanthropy, we have mapped out three potential phases in which we will approach this issue. We absolutely accept that the three current foundations do very good work for the existing hospitals, including in education, research, providing patient comforts and equipment and, in some cases, refurbishing facilities. The board has made a commitment that this will continue while those hospitals still have children being treated. We also will have a philanthropic capital campaign, as any major children's hospital build does, to enable us to seek funding in addition to what is provided by the State. We have agreed that with the merger of the three foundations and the development of a philanthropic capital campaign, our future strategy in this area will predominantly be focused on a concerted effort around research, education, innovation and improving patient comforts. With our beautiful new building in place, we hope to have the facilities and equipment we need to deliver services when we open in 2022.

Finally, on the question of parking fees, the charges levied will be based on the market rate, as reflective of what is being charged in other hospitals in Dublin. It is usual practice to seek to have a consistency in this regard as between the various hospitals. I assure members once again that in hardship cases and where a child is in hospital for a lengthy stay, parents will be able to avail of a derogation, which is to be accommodated by the setting aside of 100 parking spaces for that purpose.

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