Mr. David Hall:

I will answer Senator Black's last question first. Due to the combined pressure of advocacy organisations such as mine and others and Members of the Seanad and the Dáil we have seen a monumental change in the attitude of the banks to receiving us versus vulture funds. Heretofore, we would not have stood a chance. That is why this proposal is more relevant now than it ever was before. In dealing with some of the banks we can see they have not ruled out that option. Having been successful in launching iCare with significant funding to do what we want to do, that has given us the credibility required. We have put in place the governance issues that were required to achieve the regulatory standing to receive the funding and the deal we did with AIB, EBS and Haven has now given them some further comfort that this is not just an idea, that there is a regulated entity behind it that has been successful in achieving the required standing to get up and running.

To be fair, some members of the banks are humans. I know we vilify them. I am one who does so as well but there is a clear differential between bank staff. We have senior bank staff that have been around for many years who caused great damage in the past. The situation has evolved and changed and probably one of the most disappointing aspects of the tracker scandal is that we all thought they had changed and we still like to hope they have changed. I have met people within banks who would prefer to sell homes to us than to vultures. That is why we are very driven by it because we have a bit of confidence and a little bit of wind behind us in that regard. Given the option of having people thrown to vultures versus us where they have some chance I know where most people would want to go.

Power is absolute when it comes to banks. We say we own certain banks but as Deputy Wallace said, the entire sector is up and running because we have pumped our money into the banks. That power has never been relinquished in terms of dealing with the code of conduct; the informality; and the arrears support units not having dedicated phone numbers for dedicated case managers; making phone calls into a team of between 200 and 600 in certain circumstances and; having one's third party information, notes, potentially one's medical notes and times of crisis relayed to one from a client management system on a screen up to and including writing off debt. Many of the people referred to by Deputy Ó Laoghaire in terms of social housing provisions are still in their homes even though they are eligible for social housing but they will not leave because they would be homeless. They have to fight for HAP and emergency accommodation. One of the key considerations is that despite knowing they are eligible for the mortgage-to-rent scheme and social housing the bank will not write off their debt but expect them to surrender their property.

The power imbalance is monumental and it will have a critical effect on resolving this issue. It will take a long time to resolve. As Mr. Curtis mentioned, there are multiple parts required. Effectively, an emergency response is required where the Insolvency Service of Ireland is beefed up with Deputy Michael McGrath's legislation. We need to have the mortgage-to-rent scheme on a statutory basis. Clear directions must be given from the presidents of the various courts. In circumstances where somebody is eligible for a restructure of the loan or a mortgage-to-rent arrangement no repossession order should be given to any institution in the State. Then we could try to move on and resolve this crisis. We are not resolving it. We are messing around and spinning numbers. The Department of Finance stated there were 120,000 restructures. There were never 120,000 people in arrears in the country. Every single loan that got six months extension was classed as a restructure. They were celebrating restructures. When one has got that dishonesty the banks feel protected and they always will feel protected. All one has to do is look at the last ten days to see the running around that has happened and the power the banks have. It is deeply concerning that they still retain that power. They now need to have that power removed. The only place that can happen is in the courts or in these Houses.