Mr. David Hall:

I thank the Chairman for the invitation to attend the meeting. As most committee members will be well aware of the ongoing mortgage arrears crisis from their daily dealings with constituents, I will go through the information as quickly as possible.

The Irish Mortgage Holders Organisation is a registered charity which has completed 8,000 deals on behalf of clients, 90% of whom have managed to retain their family home. Some 20% of all bankruptcies in the State are arranged and managed by us free of charge to our customers. The mortgage crisis in Ireland has been ongoing for a long time and there have been 120,000 mortgage restructures. In fact, that figure represents a spin on the data, given that it counts every restructure of every loan, including multiple restructures of each mortgage account. The reality is that nearly a decade on from the beginning of the financial crisis, the latest figures from the Central Bank show that 73,000 families remain in arrears on their mortgage repayments. As Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire noted earlier, we are talking about real people and families. The banks, including the Central Bank of Ireland, talk about loans, but the reality is that the figure of 73,000 loans encompasses in excess of 250,000 people. Some 32,000 of these families are in arrears for more than two years, but we do not know whether it is three years, seven years or more.

Since 2009, there have been many attempts to resolve the mortgage arrears crisis. Some cases self-resolved with the improvement in the economy, as mortgage holders returned to work and found themselves in a position to restructure their loans. Others remain trapped in a mortgage arrears spiral where they may be able to make some contribution towards their mortgage repayments but not enough to meet a restructuring amount, as required not only by their bank but also in accordance with the rules mandated by the Central Bank which is, in effect, a silent partner in the failure to find solutions to the crisis. The remainder of the persons in arrears comprise those who have no ability to pay and are eligible for social housing. They will end up homeless if their bank seeks a repossession order or proceeds to execute existing proceedings. In addition, we have the vulture funds which are buying distressed loans and evicting mortgage holders. Against this background, we set up iCare Housing to ensure, via a mortgage-to-rent arrangement, that as many people as possible could remain in their homes. The facility to offer mortgage-to-rent arrangements is included in the programme for Government as being a statutory option. It is imperative, at the very least, that it be a requirement to offer it to eligible mortgage holders prior to any repossession order being granted.

It is important to highlight the numbers of those in mortgage arrears and the low levels of resolutions that have been achieved by the Insolvency Service of Ireland. It is not because Mr. Lorcan O'Connor and his team are here that I wish to emphasise the unfairness of blaming the Insolvency Service of Ireland for the lack of progress. I have been a critic not of the service but the relevant legislation. The Minister must address the problems with the legislation without delay and I urge the committee to convey to the Department the need for action in that regard. The ruling on the locus standiissue requires personal insolvency practitioners rather than the debtor to make appeals. This issue did not come from thin air. The Oireachtas introduced an amendment to the Personal Insolvency Act to allow the banks to have the veto removed. The banks went to the courts to upend the veto, such is the contempt with which they treat the legislation and individual debtors. At the core of all this is the determination to retain power. As we saw in recent weeks on the tracker mortgage issue, there is a consistency in the resolve of the banks and vulture funds to keep the power they possess. Deputy Michael McGrath's Bill represents a serious attempt to change that dynamic. He is right that the banks do not like the legislation. They do not like any of the legislation before the Houses. Deputy Mick Wallace spoke earlier about a do-nothing Dáil, but, in fact, the banks are petrified of this Dáil because it includes parties and Members who traditionally have not got on with each other but who are showing, for the first time ever, a consistency of approach in protecting debtors. The banks do not like this.

As I said, it is unfair to criticise the Insolvency Service of Ireland for the failure to protect mortgage holders in arrears. If any criticism is to be levied, it should be directed at the Department of Justice and Equality and the political structure that allows the existing legislative framework to continue in being. It must be radically overhauled. We deal with the Insolvency Service of Ireland every day and know that the banks do not engage with it. They will not engage with customers and will not engage with us. They will not engage with the State organisation charged with debt management. That is another consistency in their behaviour. Radical legislation and action are required to tackle them. It is the only language they understand.

The Insolvency Service of Ireland is processing 300 personal insolvency agreements, PIAs, per quarter. At that pace of progress, it will take 25 years to resolve the 32,000 cases involving loans in arrears for more than two years, never mind the full complement of 73,000 cases.

I mentioned personal insolvency arrangements and locus standi. It is imperative this committee, as the justice committee, seeks to amend the legislation urgently because, as Deputy McGrath mentioned and Deputy Wallace asked about, 500 personal insolvency appeals have stalled. They have come to a complete standstill. Personal insolvency practitioners are required to seek independent legal advice before they can appeal, which is just outrageous.

We support the Bill in its entirety and we hope the committee and the Dáil take it on. Constitutional issues have been mentioned, and I heard Deputy Chambers ask Deputy McGrath about this. The Attorney General seems to work for one person only. We do not seem to have advice from the Attorney General as to what can and cannot be done, which would make this entire process lot easier. It is the same with regard to the tracker issue.

There is a minor alternative to what Deputy McGrath proposes. My job here is to be honest with the committee on behalf of the people we represent. One of the concerns we have about the Bill is the fear the banks have about it. We hope they do not sell loans to vulture funds sooner than expected. This is a genuine concern we have. At present, there are three pieces of such legislation before the House. We have grave concerns this would accelerate in some way. This is why Deputy McGrath's Bill needs to be dealt with speedily and without any hesitation, so it is in being before any vulture sets its hands or claws on any of the family home loans.

We believe there should be a vulture tax, and not just a makey-uppy vulture tax but one which reflects sales of family homes to vultures. We had a nice increase in stamp duty in the budget. There should be a 50% increase in stamp duty for properties sold to vulture funds by banks. That would soften their cough very quickly. We have a housing crisis. We have had clients who lost their lives and we have clients who struggle daily in battling this. I am speaking to the converted because all of the committee members deal with people in their constituencies throughout the country. We have neglected these people for ten years. Collectively as a society we have caused harm to them and caused them to die or to be injured.

We need legislation to tackle these people. They parade around the place. Bankers and vultures are running rings around the Department of Finance, the Central Bank and, respectfully, the Government at this moment in time. This is epitomised by the tracker issue, but it has been going on for ten years with inconsistency upon inconsistency. We need action and we need the banks to be compelled to engage. They do not understand the conversations of normality and of engaging and asking. They need to be told and dragged to the water and not led to it.

Those in arrears for more than two years amount to 33,000. This is the most vulnerable cohort of people. Many of them have no contribution to pay. Mortgage to rent is required to be a compulsory component of this to protect people and keep them in the homes. As Deputy McGrath said, some people here simply will not pay. Let them knock themselves out. This is not a charter. I am not parading around trying to protect a couple of people who want to try to game the system. Nuke them and good luck. I will not defend anyone who decides to engage in that behaviour and it is proven. There are two cohorts of people who cannot pay, one that Deputy McGrath Bill deals with and one that it does not deal with directly but does so indirectly with regard to mortgage to rent. There is no issue for those who are eligible for social housing and who cannot pay. Those who can pay something need radical restructure.

We are looking, as are others, from a not-for-profit and charity perspective to see whether there is a mechanism for us to buy these loans. If, say, daddy vulture, for want of a better term, will buy a €300,000 loan from a bank for €100,000 why not let us buy it? Why not let us radically restructure that loan? Some will say vulture funds are a great way to deal with debt and absolutely great to write off debt, but they will make people homeless because they have no interest in Ireland or the housing issue here. Why do we not buy that loan for €100,000 and allow the couple or family who can pay €650 a month do so with a radically restructured loan? If they are not sold to a charitable organisation then put on a 50% stamp duty and see how that softens their cough.