Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent) | Oireachtas source

There is some crossover between this big grouping of amendments and the next grouping, which is even bigger. Some of the points being made, with which I agree, relate to the next batch of committees and not this one. Perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree. We considered Fianna Fáil's amendments, which form part of the next grouping, in respect of getting rid of certain committees and having the commission as a whole do all the decision-making. There is a certain logic in that. We decided against it but are very much open to discussing it because the idea of members of the commission being pulled into isolated conclaves goes against the concept of having a commission in the first instance. However, I am not so sure that argument applies to the procedures committee, which is what this group of amendments addresses.

Although I could be wrong, the Minister seems to be saying that the procedures committee will be set up at the start to decide on the criteria for selection. That will be its main job and it will not have much to do apart from that. A smaller body would probably be in a better position to get things up and running fairly quickly that than a larger one. I have less sympathy for these amendments than those in the next grouping and I would like to hear more about them.

I agree with the points made by Deputy Wallace regarding an overemphasis on the issue of lay members versus legal members. The real issue is that of political appointees and it is that with which members of the public have a problem. I favour having a lay majority but by concentrating on these issues, we are missing the elephant in the room, namely, who will be appointed as judges rather than how they will be appointed. Being made a judge is career progression for those in the legal profession. Given the background from which judges are drawn, they are a class apart from the rest of society. Having a lay majority is an attempt to break through that. It is not just about appointment as a judge being career progression for those in the legal profession but that judges should better reflect the diverse views and backgrounds of society as a whole. Studies show there is a better chance of getting that if there is a lay majority on the commission because it otherwise becomes self-replicating in that judges think they are doing a great job, which many of them are, but they do not see the lack of representation of wider society as a problem. They might be great judges and make good decisions but there could also be more diversity. Some of those issues need to be reflected upon.

There is more of a basis for the procedures committee to remain than other relevant committees but I am open to hearing more on the issue.