Mr. Mike Ritchie:

I would like to clarify the comment regarding South African weapons. It was the Ulster Resistance, not the DUP. There are some allegations, however, that there were links between them.

Mr. Maskey asked about the reaction of the NIO to requests for information. They always say, "We want to make this happen". There are elements within the British state who want to get things done because every six months they are before the committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe and they have to take hard questions from their European colleagues about why they are not getting this done. There is a policy decision to do it and they have signed up to it but they come under various pressures, most recently from veterans who are up in arms because finally some soldiers are ending up in the dock. They have to manage that at a political level. The question of national security intelligence is difficult for them. The best story relates to when Pat Finucane's family went over to Downing Street to meet David Cameron and they thought he was going to agree to finally provide for a public inquiry into Mr. Finucane's murder.

It is on the public record and has been said by the family that David Cameron indicated at the meeting that there were people in Westminster generally who would not allow a public inquiry in that case. The politicians are not the arbiters of these kinds of national security issues, which is the issue for those of them who want to actually get something done.

The British state is becoming very determined to try to nail down national security. In the past, national security has been a kind of moveable feast, invoked whenever the British wanted, whereas now, they are trying to put it into legislation, which is a quite a difficult job. It means they are getting themselves completely consumed by the whole matter. Obviously, there are people whose intentions are much more malign. While it is not enough, the de Silva report, which eventually came from what David Cameron acceded to in the case of the Finucane family, makes one to say "My goodness, what do they want to hide", particularly in view of the fact that some of the information in the report is devastating and damning as to the level of collusion that existed. If that is what they are willing to put into the public domain, what exactly do they have to hide? That is what we are all wrestling with. However, the tenacity of families has meant that we know so much more now than we did previously. It is a question of continuing to dig and eventually we will get more and more information.

Of course, the British state is one of the most secretive in the world. It designed and brought forward the Official Secrets Act in 1911 as a temporary measure. That Act is still in place and, arguably, has been built on. It is a difficult job but we keep digging away. The important thing is that international law backs us up. Any time international experts come to visit the North, they confirm what we are asking for in terms of transparency. They say that the onus is on the British state to show why it should not hand over the relevant documentation. This is something in respect of which we have to keep fighting.

Senator Mark Daly was accurate on a number of occasions. Those are the kinds of ballpark figures people talk about. However, what Ms Cadwallader says is very important. Albeit that it is now closed, many people who got HET reports were unsatisfied with them and are asking more questions. If there are questions which remain unanswered, particularly where new information has come to light, that must go onto the caseload. It is those ballpark figures about which we are talking.

Deputy Breathnach asked about numbers on both sides, which Mr. Butler has already outlined. However, I should say that there are some, if not many, from the Protestant community who come to avail of our therapeutic services. It is important to point that out. As Ms Cadwallader says, however, these are sensitive issues and they cannot be publicised too much. There have been people from the loyalist community who have sought help in respect of the activities of the state forces against their people. We are absolutely clear that we are willing to help whoever walks through the door. We guarantee them the same level of service and assistance.