Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity) | Oireachtas source

I will start with the last point because in the previous session we had a presentation about abortion pills and the research that has been done. Obviously, they are used for 80% of abortions in Finland and are medically extremely safe, but I am sure the witnesses would agree it would be much better if women in Ireland could go to their GP, have a discussion and be prescribed them, as they can be prescribed to women in practically every other country in Europe. We might be sending out the message that they are quite safe. According to the research that we heard about earlier, about 4% of women had to seek help because they were not sure if they had completed an abortion.

My questions relate to the hospital system. Why do the witnesses think the level of testing in Ireland is so poor? Obviously, cost must be a huge factor, but is the position of the Catholic Church a factor as well in the sense that pregnant women getting tested for abnormalities of any kind has been definitely discouraged. That certainly was my experience. Different hospitals have different positions on it. Given the level of such testing is very poor and many women do not get access to the system until 23 or 24 weeks, would the witnesses agree that there cannot be a time limit if abortion is legalised for a fatal foetal abnormality? Otherwise, we would be excluding those people who have been disadvantaged through an accident of where they happen to be situated.

Professor Malone said in his presentation that it is now possible to detect to 95% to 99% of foetal chromosomal abnormalities as early as nine to ten weeks of pregnancy. Therefore, we could be detecting these issues much earlier and making the whole trauma for a pregnant woman completely different. What would be the cost involved in testing? As it involves just a blood test, it is hard to understand why it costs so much.

Have either of the witnesses encountered women who were not able to access a termination because they could not afford to go to England, and what has happened to those women who were so diagnosed? Would they have encountered women in their clinics who are pregnant and where there is not a fatal foetal abnormality but who would like to have an abortion because, as in the case of the 62% of the women who have used abortion pills, they are mothers already, they have children and they know what it is like to be pregnant, to give birth and to bring up a child? Would they have encountered such women or are they just too afraid to talk to the witnesses about that?

On the issue which has been raised of the chilling effect on doctors, I was struck by Professor Malone saying in his presentation that doctors cannot even pick up a phone and make a referral. That says it all to me. The procedure is perfectly legal in Britain but yet he is not allowed to ring another doctor in Britain and make a referral. Is that not going beyond the bounds of the eighth amendment, or is it just that doctors are too afraid to challenge it in any way?

On the issue of maternal deaths, we regularly hear that Ireland is the safest place in the world in which to have a baby, but generally it is not people who have had a baby in Ireland who say that. There has been an increase in maternal deaths. Dr. Mahony gave some of the reasons for that in terms of women being older, obesity being a factor, etc. Are the witnesses very concerned that migrant women and non-Irish women are showing up disproportionately in those deaths? Does that not say something about perhaps their having less access to health care or getting it later? Are the witnesses happy that those women are being listened to? Are there cultural issues involved as well? Even in the case of Savita or other women, perhaps their wishes are being listened to and they are being told this is the Irish situation.