Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent) | Oireachtas source

In response to the Chairman's question, it is difficult to know at this stage the type of penalties we face. The significant penalties will accumulate as a result of our failure to meet our renewables targets rather than our emissions targets. We have a big job still to do in that area. Deputy Dooley raised the matter of heat targets, which is 12% by 2020. During the current year we have significantly ramped up capacity, both within the SEAI through current funding but also by significantly increasing capital funding by €100 million this year. There are two issues relating to it. Of course we would like more money. No Minster will say that he or she would not like more money, but there is also a certain level of capacity in the industry and the one thing that would help me would be a multi-annual programme. In talking to the operators carrying out this work throughout the country, their major problem is that there are peaks and troughs. They effectively have six months to carry out these works, from the day the scheme is launched, to the application going in, to it being approved through the SEAI, to the work is carried out and being accounted for by the end of the year. The case that I have been making to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform is for us to get a multi-annual budget in order that the process can be streamlined to keep people within that sector where the capacity has been built up and to exploit that fully. We can do the programme more cost efficiently and in a more streamlined way, and we can deliver far more for the money we have allocated.

We need to look in broader terms at how we engage people to do deep retrofits, which is a challenge all over Europe. If one could fund that, that would be the way to do it, but this Government does not have the capacity to do that on the scale that would be involved, nor will any future Government. We are working with the European Investment Bank and have had a number of meetings with it on this matter to see how we can leverage people's capital or their capacity through a range of schemes. Some people have access to capital so grant aid might suit them.

Others, especially families, do not have access to cash. The issue, therefore, is whether the investment could be repaid over time through electricity bills. We are considering a number of suites of measures and we have had some constructive discussions on the issue with the European Investment Bank, EIB. There are 120 sustainable energy communities nationwide and we held a meeting with them in Longford earlier in the year to ascertain if we could have a more co-ordinated approach and if they could leverage this funding through the State. Those discussions are ongoing.