Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I understand what is being said. Many different angles have been covered and there has been a broad-ranging debate. The committee must be clear and logical and ensure we get to a conclusion if we are revisiting this. I propose that we agree what members have accepted but I want a detailed and specific proposal to be prepared this week by the secretariat for the committee to sign off on next week as to precisely what our agenda will be. We will set the date for that meeting next Thursday. I agree about the importance of logic. At the risk of incurring the wrath of some members, there have been a few major gaps in the logic of what has been said. The assistant commissioner, John O'Driscoll, wrote the report. If anyone is to come before the committee, it should be him. I am amazed that members have suggested people from further down the ranks should come in and discuss a report they may have had no involvement in writing. One person wrote the report. I find it inconceivable that he would not be the person invited to appear before the committee. His name has not been mentioned by members so far, so there is a lack of clear thinking in what has been said this morning. We will come back to it next Thursday with clearer thinking.

It was said that the decision to allocate money is not the function of the Committee of Public Accounts, it is a function of the line committee in respect of the Estimate in the Department. Any cost to be incurred regarding Stepaside Garda station, staff moving there and so on will be incurred in 2018. That is a matter for the Committee on Justice and Equality to consider and approve as part of its discussion of Estimates for 2018. It is not the job of this committee to cut across an Estimates debate in another committee with regard to expenditure next year. We do not have a role in approving Estimates of expenditure that might be spent in an area next week. We must be clear on that. We want to see the logic and process of how decisions that have been taken were implemented. I make those points to ensure the committee is within its remit. Future expenditure is not our job; that is politics and an issue for the Government, Dáil Éireann or the Committee on Justice and Equality. There has been a major gap in the process of how the Committee of Public Accounts has been acting on this issue recently, given there was a debate on this matter without anyone mentioning the author of the report. I propose that we start with the person who wrote the report. We are agreed that we are going to do it and will need a conclusion but I will ask the secretariat to put an exact paper before the committee next week that we can sign off on and know precisely what will happen.

I have been most disappointed recently by the Department of Justice and Equality because when the acting Garda Commissioner was here in July, he committed to issue the report in good faith. When the Garda checked with the Department shortly thereafter, the Department blocked the issuing of the report. The Taoiseach was asked about that last Thursday or Friday after our meeting. He had no problem with the interim report being issued and that was done by the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flanagan, last Saturday Had the Department not interfered with the commitment given by the acting Garda Commissioner, the committee would have had the report in July and last week's controversy that the Department brought on itself, the Garda Síochána, the Committee of Public Accounts and the political establishment would not have occurred. The Department of Justice and Equality caused the problem from beginning to end. From the day the acting Garda Commissioner appeared before the committee to the publication of the report it was the Department and the Department alone that stalled the issue and caused the problem. Consequently, it must be asked why it sought to block a public commitment by a very senior Garda officer. Members understand that we are going to do that and we will not discuss it any further.

We want a specific detailed paper so that we have an agenda, as members said, and will be able to start, show the logic of what we are doing and draft a report at the end of the process. We want to be able to sign off it. We will have that on our work programme next week. We will sign off next Thursday on who is to be invited to appear because------