Mr. Mervyn Taylor:

Deputy Billy Kelleher raised the issue of congregated care. In the south east, where much public attention has been paid to some particularly awful cases, 70% of those with a disability live in the community. For some people, a person in a family with a disability is a source of income. The solution to this is not about having more safeguarding teams. This is why we have a national safeguarding committee, as well as the involvement of the Department of Employment and Social Protection and HIQA. It is through the interaction of the various agencies who can check who is actually benefitting from the moneys. Is it really for the benefit of the person? We must not see this as just the responsibility of any one agency. Although there is a clear lead agency with the HSE, other agencies are involved. Huge amounts of State money go out through the Department of Employment and Social Protection which is a key part of the picture. Following the money is often, as in crime, a useful way of tackling the issue of abuse.

We thank Senator Colette Kelleher for her welcome work on the Adult Safeguarding Bill 2017. Our view is that any safeguarding service should be independent of service providers. For example, the same chief operating officer of the HSE who does not answer three letters could be the same person who is responsible for setting up safeguarding teams and various committees in those areas. We see the need for an independent service. People need to understand that the future lies in having a dedicated independent safeguarding service.

The recognition of the independent advocate in the Bill is welcome. There is a debate about whether the old Citizens Information Bill is the relevant one because some have criticisms of the way people were mandated to provide advocates. There are issues to be teased out there. The first point is that there should be recognition of the role of independent advocacy. I also think of the emerging decision support service which will have implications for the emergence of advocacy. We need to develop among the general public a better understanding of what constitutes abuse. We need to talk about a threshold for engagement of safeguarding services. There is a role in all of this for the public.

Senator Colm Burke referred to enduring power of attorney, EPA, and the general idea of planning ahead. Earlier this year, we wrote to the Chairman of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight, Deputy Madigan, suggesting certain incentives to develop EPAs, advance health care directives, etc. We would like very much if the committee would bring that message to the Committee on Budgetary Oversight. We have not had engagement with it so far but we know some people are interested in this whole idea of how we can develop a series of incentives. People need to be incentivised. There is a significant cost to the health and social care system generally, as well as to the public purse, arising from the fact that one has divided families, not always large, fighting over people who have a lack of or are losing capacity. An incredible amount of time is spent by us, as well as doctors, social workers, nurses, health care attendants, and indeed in some cases, security, in dealing with these cases. This is an incredible cost to the State. We have got to find a basic system to incentivise people to actually take responsibility and literally think ahead.