Michael Harty (Clare, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I will bring in some other members and I ask the witnesses to bank their answers until they have had a chance to contribute.

I welcome the witnesses and thank them for their presentations and observations. Regarding some of the surveys, the Red C polls, the statistics that are coming out and the HIQA 2016 submission to the Oireachtas Committee on the Future of Healthcare, the Abuse and Neglect of Older People in Ireland: Report on the National Study of Elder Abuse and Neglect report from 2010 estimated that 10,000 older people are mistreated or neglected every year with 6,000 cases of financial abuse. Dr. Amanda Phelan from UCD estimated that 32,000 older people were abused in the past 12 months. There are large disparities but certainly large numbers of people regardless of which figure one takes into account. At the same time, the HSE reported that 8,000 cases of alleged adult abuse were reported to it last year. The main types of abuse experienced were physical, psychological and financial abuse and neglect. In the context of the 8,000 cases that were reported to the HSE, without any change in the law, physical abuse is a criminal offence, as is psychological abuse. Financial abuse is also a criminal offence if it can proved that money was taken illegally. Of all those cases, how often would the HSE interact with An Garda Síochána in terms of investigations from a criminal point of view? Is there a reluctance to refer these cases or does a filtering system exist? Who analyses whether or not they should be referred to An Garda Síochána, which is the body charged with protecting individuals' integrity?

The HSE is the body that is primarily responsible in the context of the provision of service as well. Can a conflict sometimes arise regarding providing and funding a service and at the same time, investigating potential failings in that service? An example is where the HSE may be funding a home care package and there is no oversight regarding how the person receiving the home care package is actually treated. We must taken into account what happened in the "Grace" case and the case of Áras Attracta. Áras Attracta was facility run by the HSE where neglect and abuse took place. Is there a conflict at times because the HSE is funding an entity and might have to hold the entity to account effectively if it highlights issues of abuse or neglect?

What are the witnesses' observations regarding the broader issue of the Adult Safeguarding Bill 2017 published by Senator Kelleher, which has cross-party support? Could they make some general observations on it? When we talk about safeguarding vulnerable people, there is a move to decongregate and provide more care in the home care or community setting. If we were unable to ensure that there was no abuse or neglect in a congregrated setting, how capable are we of making sure there is no abuse or neglect when an awful lot more people will be dispersed throughout the community? From what I can gather from parliamentary questions put down by Deputies over the years, there has not been a huge investment in the area of oversight and investigation because of a lack of legislation and resources or even a lack of will at times.

The Law Reform Commission recommended oversight of home care and the home care setting. I suppose that refers to home help, home care packages and, I assume, carers. It is clearly a failing of the Legislature that it has not legislated for that issue. This committee should take on board that indication from the Law Reform Commission that there is a deficiency in that area, along with Senator Kelleher's Bill.