David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Chairman. I am not sure whether he was trying to put manners on me. I hope our discussions will be robust as well. I thank him for his kind words in respect of Deputy Crowe. He will continue to take an active role in the issues and work he has been engaged in.

I welcome the two witnesses. It is timely that there is a discussion on the future of Europe, although that discussion has been ongoing since the foundation of Europe. There has always been a debate at the heart of the European project as to what it is we are trying to create. There has always been a conflict between those who want to use the three phrases - "ever closer Union", "deeper integration" and a more federal Europe - and those who want a less federal Europe and a more democratic and social Europe. I fall on the side of wanting a more democrat and social Europe and I am concerned about moves to create a more federal Europe. We cannot divorce Brexit or even the rise of parties on the far right from reform of the Union because we have to acknowledge that while we have enjoyed huge benefits from the European project, there are also huge challenges and citizens look at Europe sometimes and do not see what Mr. Pratt and Ms O'Connell see. They look at the reaction to the economic crisis in Europe, what happened in Ireland and in Greece and what has happened in Catalonia in recent times and ask, "Is this the type of Europe I want to live in?".

Ireland should be at the heart of Europe and our place is in Europe. I would like the entire island of Ireland to remain in the Union. That a different issue and it will be worked out though negotiation. Do the witnesses agree with the viewpoint that there is a need for more democratic Europe as a starting point? Do they also agree there is a need for a more social Europe? The central argument for many is that the economic orthodoxy, neoliberalism, that has underpinned the Union has created the circumstances for Brexit and the rise of the far right and we have to rise to that challenge by making sure the Union works for citizens. Do we need more democracy or more federalism? That is one of the key questions that has to be answered.

Mr. Pratt referred to deeper integration on security and defence. I have concerns in this regard. I support Ireland's neutrality and I would be concerned if we had to spend more on security and defence at a time we have many pressing problems domestically. I am concerned about the democracy element of this in the context of decisions being made to which Ireland is potentially not a party.

Mr. Pratt omitted the issue of consolidated taxation. Every party is having a critical engagement with the EU because there are more concerns as get closer to the "ever closer Union" with talk about more scrutiny of budgets and finance Ministers, and consolidated taxes. People are beginning to say this may be a step too far. Is that a concern for the EMI? What is the organisation's views on security and defence? I would like to hear its view because Mr. Pratt posed a question to us in this regard. What is the EMI's view on consolidated taxation?

People who have concerns about Europe are not on the fringe or on the margins of society. Even those who believe in being part of the Union, like me, believe it needs to be reformed and that there are difficulties. Sometimes the argument can be condensed down to concerns among fringe elements, politically or otherwise, but that is not the case. Many organisations at the centre of politics are asking questions and they want to be part of a debate and part of the solution. I thank the witnesses for their contributions and I look forward to the responses.