Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity) | Oireachtas source

Professor Binchy posed his paper as if this is a question of Ireland versus Europe and the world at it holds onto its so-called protection of the unborn. Is this not a question of the pregnant individual's autonomy rather than the country's autonomy?

Does Professor Binchy accept that if the aim of Ireland's abortion ban was to save so-called unborn lives, it is not doing a very good job? Given that ten women a day are leaving the country and at least three others are having abortions in their own bedrooms in this country, the ban is certainly not working.

I have a third question for Professor Binchy. Does he favour forced pregnancy? Does he favour forcing a pregnant woman who does not want to be pregnant to continue with that pregnancy? He said earlier that he does not favour injunctions to prevent women from travelling. It seems to me that he did at one point, when he served as legal adviser to the pro-life amendment campaign, but he just will not get away with it now. He has said he wants the sources of all claims that are made. During a lecture Professor Binchy gave in the Coombe in 1980, he said:

If we are to allow sympathy for the woman to stop us from regarding abortion as criminal... why should that sympathy simply stop at our shorelines? ...A strong argument can be made that our law should give such effect as it can to the principle that unborn life is entitled to be protected.

He accepted that this would cause a lot of criticism, but he felt there was a strong argument to be made for it. He seems to have changed his mind since then. Is that fair enough?

My fourth question relates to a claim Professor Binchy has made about the Citizens' Assembly's proposal that abortion should be available up to birth. He has suggested that this would lead to abortion with little or no restrictions in place. Has he not been scaremongering like this for a long time? He made similar comments in 1992 in response to the ruling in the X case. He claimed in The Irish Timesof 6 March 1992 that the ruling had "introduced an abortion regime of wide-ranging dimensions, beyond any effective control or practical limitation". He went on to say that as a result of the Supreme Court judgment, "those who authorise and carry out abortions in Ireland [will be placed] beyond the reach of criminal law". Nothing could be further from the truth in relation to the X case. We have seen how it is practically impossible for a woman to access an abortion by claiming she is suicidal.

In 1992, around the time of the X case, Professor Binchy was asked whether he thinks suicidal women should be allowed to have abortions.

He was asked if a woman went on to commit suicide after being refused an abortion, what would he say? He said that it would be very regrettable. He also said that there should not be any legal sanctions attaching to travel abroad, which was a change from his previous position.

Professor Binchy is asking politicians to listen to him but did they not listen to him in 1983 and is that not why we are here today? He says he favours the equal right to life of the unborn child and the woman, which is practically impossible to adjudicate over in any case. Was it not his original proposal in the pro-life amendment campaign, PLAC, that: "The State recognises the absolute right to life of every unborn child from conception, and accordingly guarantees to respect and protect such a law." I believe that is stated on page 63 of Marital, Privacy and Family Law, Studies, but I can check that. Is Professor Binchy not in favour of a lot more than he has said here today?

Ms Christina Zampas said that if restrictions are put in place on abortion law, it effectively means that people's human rights cannot be guaranteed. The witnesses in the previous session said something similar. Would Ms Zampas be concerned that politicians outside this committee are saying that the type of proposals from the Citizens' Assembly would not be passed by the people and, therefore, they are talking about quite restrictive legislation? Would that not lead to a continuation of Ireland contravening best practice in human rights laws?