Dr. Geoffrey Shannon:

I thank the Deputy. I will bundle the issues she has raised into two categories. The first is around PULSE and the second is around training.

In terms of co-operation, my only experience is in relation to child protection. I have to be careful in saying this. I did not deal with any other division apart from meeting the Garda intercultural and racial office. I met those to get an understanding of what was happening in terms of ethnicity and training in that area. In terms of the child protection unit, the two people I dealt with, Detective Superintendent Declan Daly and Inspector Lynch, provided outstanding co-operation. I want to put that on the record. It must have been frustrating because I am the type of person who just does not let go when I am looking for a piece of information.

That links into the next question, concerning PULSE. We were provided with a huge amount of data. To put it in context, I had a full room of material that was generated. I had a very small team, and this was probably the most cost-effective scheme ever undertaken. It consisted of Cian, myself, Hilary Coveney and a psychiatrist, who was really helpful in terms of trying to ascertain her understanding of what it feels like to be a child subject to section 12. The consequences from a mental health perspective enabled us to analyse that issue.

When it came to PULSE it was quite clear that there was a problem with it. To elaborate on the Deputy's point, if we turn to pages 55 to 56 of the report, we can see that we had looked at the PULSE system. I had devised a system whereby we looked at all the PULSE data and worked back to reconstruct a picture of every child subject to section 12, and I cannot emphasise enough how difficult and time-consuming that was. However, by doing that we were able to identify fairly conclusively the deficiencies within the PULSE system. As a result of that process, An Garda Síochána changed what was the public figure of 557 valid instances in 2004 to 560. We were able to determine that the figures were not accurate because of the fact that some had been wrongly classified. I put together a template to make sure that this cannot happen again. Appendix six sets out all the data required to ensure we have a complete picture. As I said at the outset, when the State takes a child away from its parents, it is exercising the greatest power it has, and when it is done without a court warrant, we must have a comprehensive paper trail detailing why that happened. One of the most important pieces of paper to emanate from this audit is the recasting of PULSE to ensure there is a degree of transparency within the process. I found that in all the cases I looked at there was an appropriately restrained use of section 12 powers, and it is important to say that.

This ties into the Deputy's later question regarding other agencies. The rank and file gardaí do a very good job, in my view, and we were struck by that as we travelled around the country. This was not just a passive audit. We did not just sit there and look at a piece of work. We travelled the length and breadth of the country to talk to individual gardaí about what it felt like to exercise section 12 powers. One of the consequences not reported in the public domain is that gardaí are now even more reluctant to exercise section 12 powers. We need to make sure that gardaí are confident, when a child is at risk, to exercise section 12 powers. In the west, one garda said to me that where before he was doubly cautious, he is now triply cautious. That is a pity. My view is that hundreds of children are protected because we have this power, and until such time as we have a 24-7 out of hours social work service and co-locating agencies, this is an essential tool in broader child protection infrastructure. It is not just a question of looking at this issue in isolation but rather looking at it across all the agencies. That is why it needs a whole of Government response. It is not just one Department. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, in fairness to her, has published an implementation plan. This needs to be fully monitored in terms of its implementation.

On the issue of training, I travelled to Templemore and met all the appropriate people there. I reviewed the documentation, and it is my considered view that the documentation is not adequate to reflect that we now have a referendum placing children at the centre of our Constitution and that we now have much more robust child protection systems. It is important. I recognise that there was a moratorium on the recruitment of gardaí for a period, but we now need robust training.

Training is hugely important. As Deputy Daly said, it is not just about on-the-job training. As legislation changes, the requirements of An Garda Síochána change, and they are changing all the time. We expect more from our gardaí and we need to make sure they are properly trained. A body of work needs to be undertaken. I received a letter over the summer inviting me to participate in some of that training. I am more than happy to assist but there must be a complete review as to how that should happen.

Coming back to the PULSE system, and the Deputy referenced a letter in January, what I have tried to do in a transparent fashion is outline what happened. We received all the information in December. Once I had the opportunity over a large part of the Christmas period to examine the documentation, it was apparent to me that there were anomalies. There were 31 cases that I could not locate having undertaken this process so I decided to write back to members of An Garda Síochána and ask for an explanation as to the reason these anomalies might exist. In terms of what happened, I got the entire set of data again. That involved starting de novoa complete further review of the PULSE system. That is why I am very confident that the conclusions I have reached are fairly solid and conclusive.