Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome Ms Justice Laffoy and thank her for her work in chairing the Citizens' Assembly. I also thank our 99 fellow citizens who took part in this particular exercise. In trying to address this issue and the roadmap that has been laid out by the Citizens' Assembly, one could argue that it is a roadmap, or equally a map of many roads. It does not give us any clearly defined pathway. There are many recommendations in the Citizens' Assembly. In that context, how did the assembly reach these decisions? Were fatal foetal abnormality, incest, rape, and the various options that were highlighted towards the end of the report outlined at the start of the process? When were they framed in the mind of the assembly? Was it at the outset or did they arise in the course of the discussions with the various witnesses and testimonies that were presented at the Citizens' Assembly? There was surprise in some quarters that 64% of the members of the Citizens' Assembly recommended that termination of a pregnancy without restriction would be lawful. That was a surprise to some people and certainly created much discussion. On the broader issue of the 13 recommendations that are outlined, where did they come from in terms of being printed and voted upon? I would appreciate if the witness could elaborate on that.

The witness said in her opening statement, "I had initially hoped that the assembly would be able to conclude its work ... over four weekends", but that it became clear that because of the complexities, in particular in relation to law, it would be necessary to have another weekend. Does the witness mean the law as it is or the law that would have to exist if there were to be a change to the Constitution? Is the witness referring to the complexities of the present legal structures?

When the witness was discussing the substantive issues, was there a change in the mood of the Citizens' Assembly over a period of weeks or at the start of the particular deliberations? Does the witness think that views and opinions and people's minds were changed during that process when witnesses were making deliberations, or is it possible to ascertain that? There was no vote at the start to compare with the vote at the end. Was there a change in the attitudes of the citizens to the testimonies, the witness statements of the medical, legal and ethical experts, and the personal stories people relayed of the impact the eighth amendment has had on them? I assume there were advocacy groups from both sides who relayed personal stories of the eighth amendment to the Citizens' Assembly.

On the issue of fatal foetal abnormalities, we have had numerous debates in the Dáil Chamber, and indeed across broader society. Fatal foetal abnormality, incest and rape are very often seen as areas where there may be a certain amount of common ground. There may be people on the pro-choice side and the pro-life side who have a very strong view, but there also seems to be a group in the middle. Is that reflected? Is that an area where there was a feeling or a vibe from the assembly around these particular issues, or was it just very blunt votes at the end of the process that gave us the varying views of the committee itself?

The witness is a judge who has sat and listened to these debates. She has observed them both as a judge and citizen over many years. Did the assembly take any legal advice, other than the testimony that was presented by witnesses who were called, or did the witness or secretariat or the Citizens' Assembly seek any independent legal advice for themselves with which to frame the discussion. If such advice was taken, was it published or made available?

The witness said in her speech-----