Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the three men for coming in today. Deputy Jack Chambers and I have had an opportunity to speak to them previously and it was very beneficial. Looking at this from a first principles aspect, Mr. Morris worked in the Garda for 11 years, Mr. Shanley worked for ten years and Mr. Hynes worked for 14 years. It is very unfair that people who worked in the public sector for those periods of time end up with no pension whatsoever. There is a history to this dating back to negotiations that took place very many years ago, but we need to ask what we can practically do for the witnesses. I am not making a party political point but the reality is that it is impossible for us, as Oireachtas Members, to change the law on this issue without Government support because there will be a money Bill and we need the support of Government in order to do that.

What we need to do, and I have said this to the gentlemen previously, is identify the number of people who are affected by this at present. Unfortunately, because of the length of time this has gone on for, the numbers must be quite low. I note what Senator Craughwell said about the cost being irrelevant.

However, there is still a benefit in trying to identify what would be the cost, even for the three witnesses present, if their pension entitlements were returned to them. It may be the case that we do not achieve a change in the law - we can discuss afterwards what approach we wish to take - but it seems as though the State has previously operated ex gratiapayment schemes for individuals deserving of having money refunded to them by the State. The State might consider the option that a payment should be made to the small number of individuals who, through no agreement on their own part, ended up having their pensions taken away from them.

I do not have questions because we spoke previously. I got thorough answers from the witnesses previously.

I commend them on their attendance. I thank them for their years of service to An Garda Síochána. We are conscious that other members who are not before us here are in a similar position. If we could identify the numbers and the cost and then seek an ex gratiapayment scheme from the State, I would have thought this would be a unanswerable cause.