Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent) | Oireachtas source

On the last point, which we can come back to later, where is the line drawn on what is serious and what is not? Maybe there is one I do not know about. I understand the argument the Minister of State is making and where he is coming from. I do not think it is a difference of philosophy between what we are arguing and what he is arguing. One of the biggest differences is the animal we are dealing with. It reminds me a little of the police. When the Patten report was done in Northern Ireland, which looked at the Royal Ulster Constabulary, RUC, the conclusion was that one could forget about changing how that force operated unless one got rid of the hierarchy, so that is what happened. Members of the RUC were paid off to go, and the Police Service of Northern Ireland, PSNI, was formed. It is not perfect, but it is much better than the RUC was. I am not in Northern Ireland often since I live in Wexford.

The HSE is an incredibly dysfunctional organisation where I come from and I could not exaggerate enough how many complaints I get about the attitude of the people in authority in the section of that organisation in my area. It is horrific and we are looking at the animal we are dealing with, and the Minister of State is looking at a more perfect situation. It will be great when we can do it the way the Minister of State thinks it should be done and we have an organisation that responds to that, but, by God, I think we are a good bit away from it.