Lynn Ruane (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their contributions which I found interesting and invaluable, in particular the contribution of Ms Noreen Duggan. The focus for me in this area is always DEIS and disadvantage. Many of the contributions today focused on special education but I note that there are many similarities with these complex needs and what is necessary for a school to address them. I will focus on disadvantage and teacher training to which Dr. Ryan and Ms Griffin might refer. I am delighted also to have Professor Áine Hyland here today. If I ever feel I am steering wrong, I go back to her disadvantage report of 12 years ago to remind myself of what it is I am doing.

I am very critical in relation to secondary schools which sometimes does not come across well. I understand that teachers work in very stressful environments. However, as the parent of a child going through DEIS schools and as a past pupil of DEIS schools, it is hard not to be critical of the way the system works within schools.

Primary schools are a little bit different from secondary schools in DEIS areas because pupils have the same teacher for all subjects, which creates greater continuity and works better. At second level, school becomes a little chaotic for students, with children from different primary schools bunched together. The entrance examination for second level schools creates an immediate division as children are categorised into separate groups of those who can and those who cannot learn a language. At the age of 12 years, students are told they are not capable of learning French or Spanish and are graded into lower and higher classes. This categorisation, which is based on an entrance examination, is done at a very young age. Children are separated on that basis on their first day at school. Do the witnesses wish to comment on how to tackle this issue? This approach is not taken in all schools but the practice is common in areas of disadvantage.

Teacher training courses include modules on inclusive education. I have been working with Dr. Fiona O'Reilly to create an approach to teacher education based on the model used for doctors. Doctors who work in areas of deprivation are trained to understand the social context in which they are working. This type of social medicine allows them to understand the complex needs of patients in deprived areas which may be slightly different from the needs of patients in more affluent areas. The model has some valuable features. Perhaps Dr. Ryan will consider piloting the programme Dr. O'Reilly and I have pulled together to see if it could help in teacher training. We could offer teachers the type of training provided for doctors. If teachers are to work in areas of disadvantage where addiction, domestic violence and intergenerational poverty are prominent features, they must be equipped to do so. Teachers would have to do placements in youth clubs and domestic violence centres and would not go to a DEIS school to be taught how these schools work. Instead, they would have placements in community groups in order that they learn to understand the individual. New teachers learn from teachers who have been in the secondary school system for a long time have been a little bit battered by the system. We could do something a little different in the area of inclusive education.

Students in disadvantaged areas do not have access to the funding and resources needed to obtain an educational psychologist's report. People living in Cushlawn, west Tallaght and Jobstown cannot afford to have their children tested for dyspraxia, dyslexia, dyscalculia and so forth. If parents could obtain a diagnosis, they could then access resources to address their child's needs. How will this be addressed?

We are due to discuss reform of the leaving certificate in a few weeks. Reform of the leaving certificate will be extremely important in DEIS areas because the leaving certificate does not serve people who attend DEIS schools. The aspirations, ambitions and determination of teachers in some second level schools are focused only on school completion. They have not accepted that they are part of the bigger picture in the transition to third level and aspirations have dropped. DEIS schools have children who are extremely determined and would do well and also children who display extreme behaviour. Teachers must try to teach children of widely differing ability, which drags children who would normally progress to third level down to a certain standard. Teachers are telling sixth year pupils who probably would be capable of taking a higher level paper to sit ordinary level examinations because they have not taught the higher level curriculum. As a result, children believe they are not capable when the issue is the inability of the school to teach the higher paper because the needs in the classroom are so complex and mixed. This ties into the issue of transforming teacher education to ensure teachers are equipped to work in DEIS schools.

Professor Hyland told me once about the community development style of education in place in either New York or Boston where schools have youth clubs at night and the system is much more integrated into the community. Perhaps we should look towards that model.

I support the view that we should examine the reason Tusla has been given certain educational briefs and perhaps recommend that these briefs come back into the education system. Tusla's main priority will never be education. If it becomes involved in education in areas of deprivation, parents and families will have a negative relationship with the agency or may fear it a little. If Tusla were to assume control of a certain element of schooling, this negative relationship could tip over into the educational process.