Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The accounts state that the State grant from the Department was €47 million and that €43 million of academic fees came through the HEA's student fee provision. Research was a significant source of income but State and semi-State companies provided €55 million of that. The EU provided €13 million of that. I am going from the university's accounts here. That is €158 million, or in the region of 50% of UCC's income. As such, it is substantially funded directly by the State. The witnesses are saying it might now be 40%. Ultimately, what troubles us a little - and we are trying to get to the bottom of the actual cost - relates to page 19 of the document presented here, in Appendix 9, namely the last paragraph, which is boxed. We will get it on the screen there now. We are back to this issue of saying no Exchequer moneys were used in the acquisition. We accept that. It was bank money that was used to acquire it. If something goes wrong, however, it could ultimately fall back to the college to pay for it. On day 1, the bank paid for it, but if things do not work out, it could fall back to UCC. I am just looking.

I will read to the witnesses the last paragraph in their own note that they provided to us. It is not on screen. It states:

The university has acquired an appreciating asset. Were UCC to consider at some stage in future recovering its investment, recent land sales adjacent to IMI would suggest that any future sale of the campus would yield a return to UCC in excess of the amount paid.

We now hear the university justifying the price it paid on the basis that: "Sure, we are going to have a property boom. Values are going to go up." That is UCC's Appendix 9 to us today. When Deputy Alan Kelly asked, UCC said it had no intention, but it in its documentary evidence, it is a consideration because it has highlighted in a big, black box what would happen at some stage in the future if UCC were to consider it. As such, it is a possibility.

They have somewhat hedged this €20 million cost against the fact that the properties will rise in value anyway. Do the witnesses not see how we find that a little disconcerting for a third level college? It has taken over the Irish Management Institute with the underlying assumption that if things go wrong there will be something of a property boom and it can dispose of the assets if necessary. Do they not see how that appears?