Mr. Gerry Kiely:

I will be brief because everyone's comments were more or less on the same line. On the rules and regulations, certainly there is a problem on occasion with countries or officials perhaps being over-enthusiastic in the interpretation and implementation. Not long ago I attended an event at which many farmers were pulling their hair out about a particular inspector in the county. Another bunch of them were saying that another fellow was all right. There is even a problem with two inspectors under the same authority at local level, with people complaining about the application of the rule by one but not by the other. We are dealing here with all sorts of diverse situations across 28 member states. There certainly is a problem with the interpretation and implementation at local level. I have always worked in agriculture and since Commissioner Hogan took office, although his predecessors did this as well, he has been pulling back the member states and telling them to use their heads and a certain degree of logic and pragmatism in implementing the rules. There are also those who exaggerate and put the responsibility on Europe for something that is not Europe's responsibility but the member state's. You spoke about the three tools. I am sure that has nothing to do with us. I cannot say that with 100% certainty, but 99% certainty. The last big flood was two or three years ago. Some politicians here tried to put the blame on Europe's environmental law, but that was not true. It happens every day of the week across Europe.

To refer to the points made by Senator Richmond and Deputy Durkan, we and the European Commission counter it, but we do not have the resources spread across the EU or we do not have the access. We are depending on the media. If the media are negative towards the EU, as is the case across much of the media in Britain, it is a lost cause. One cannot get the response in. Also, the populist criticism of the EU is much more sexy and more likely to get coverage in the media than a dull, formal answer from the European Commission. We are a civil service and we must answer in a formal way. We cannot sex it up so it does not get covered as easily. That is the reason I said earlier, in terms of selling the White Paper, that it comes back to national level. The British are leaving because the pro-Europeans in Britain sat on their hands for 30 years. They did not put their heads above the parapet and take on the eurosceptic criticism. Their attitude was, "Why would I put my head in the firing line? It doesn't matter and we don't care". They know now that it does matter. It affects them. One cannot take it for granted that there will always be massive support for the EU in Ireland. After all, we lost two referenda. It can happen very easily.

Senator Richmond has left. I am not saying in any way that the Commission is giving up. In fact, we are reinforcing our resources and our approach to communication all the time. However, that is in Brussels. Much more must done at local level. I take the point that peace and so forth is not so important to young people any more. Much of the stuff that has come from the EU is taken for granted. However, the younger people are more supportive of the EU than the older people. Who voted to leave in Britain? It was the older people, not the younger people. If the younger people had voted in greater numbers, Britain would not be leaving. There is no problem with younger people in the EU, even though they take all the things in it for granted and do not realise that they come from the EU. To return to Deputy Durkan's point, we have to remind people about what is there. It is not so easy. Much of the social legislation in many of the countries would not be in place without the EU. That is also the case with much of the environmental legislation. People have to be reminded of that but it is very difficult to convey it to people. Ultimately, one can only get it across to them face-to-face. The media are not there to facilitate us getting a message out.

In many cases, it is a hard slog.

In terms of Brexit, it is not in our hands. We do not know what Britain wants. It will probably want something that cannot be given or that crosses the line of the four principles. It keeps talking about the bill it faces from the EU being a punishment. It is not a punishment, it is what Britain owes. If good enough progress is made on the three main points to start out with, including the Border and so on, agreement may be possible. Also, one sees inflation feeding into the system and more and more banks talking about moving their business. Up to now, Britain has been in a nice situation. It has gotten the benefit of a devaluation of sterling and has not yet been hurt by Brexit. However, it has not yet left the European Union. It has gotten the benefit of a devaluation without the negative impact of Brexit but the devaluation is now having a negative impact as people get worried that there will be a hard Brexit and the British economy is slowing down. All of these issues are helping to concentrate people's minds in Britain. The British Government's expectations in regard to the exit deal they want will hopefully become more realistic and be something that can be met by the 27 EU member states. However, the British Government has not helped itself by its rhetoric on this issue over the past six to 12 months. Neither the European Union nor the European Commission want a hard Brexit but that will depend on what Britain is prepared to do. We will negotiate and the EU is very clear and will be very clear. The difficulty is we do not know what the British position is.

There was a mention of tax. If countries want to harmonise their tax rates, that is no problem but it is their business. Nobody can force Ireland or any other country to accept a tax regime. It is national competence. Ireland would have a veto on that. Some countries may press ahead with it but I do not know if they will. The common consolidated corporate tax base, CCTB, is on the table at the moment. Ireland has some difficulties with it, as do some other countries. I do not know where that is going to go. However, there is nothing to stop individual countries agreeing to have a common tax regime.