John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

The point to take from the meeting is that the assessment is that because the proper information is not available and there has not been a proper costing or that level of detail, therefore we should do nothing at this point. From my perspective, I do not think that is a fair assessment of this morning's proceedings. There is clearly a huge issue here. Irrespective of delay in this or in any legislation, defined benefit schemes have been plummeting since 1992. We have the figures to hand. Doing nothing is simply not an option in my book. A number of legislative items have been brought forward, this being the most recent. Again, I have put forward the proposition that the Sinn Féin legislation that was brought forward clearly has the mechanisms to stop the profitable companies from winding down their schemes. I have outlined many examples that are in the media, including the examples of Irish Life, Independent News and Media and many others that unfairly, with no consultation with their employees, are winding down their schemes. Doing nothing is not an option. There may be some concerns around this. Giving 12 months' notice, as this Bill currently outlines and proposes, is fair enough.

I put it to IBEC in particular - because there was not a clear "Yes" or "No" in response to the question that I put to IBEC - that if it is opposed to this legislation going forward, would it support the Sinn Féin legislation? If the organisation has not seen it, I would gladly pass it along. It makes amendments to the Pensions Act, specifically where a healthy sponsor shall not be allowed to close a defined benefit pension scheme except where the scheme has reached a minimum 90% funding standard. Second, it provides that for these purposes, a healthy sponsor means an employer that either has positive net revenue or has a parent company with positive net revenue. Its clear intention is to stop the profitable companies from walking away from their employees that are engaged in a scheme. We are not talking about future schemes or curtailing those but about current schemes that are in operation and stopping profitable companies from walking away. I put that question directly to IBEC, because I take on board what the Pensions Authority is saying.