Mark Daly (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Dr. Coughlan for coming and giving us his views and some information. It is important for us to hear the views of those who articulate the case for Irexit, regardless of whether we agree with them. The arguments in favour of Ireland leaving the European Union should be heard. One wonders whether we should see how Britain gets on before considering whether to ride on its coat-tails. Dr. Coughlan has suggested we draw up a joint agreement. It feels like we have to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea. What is the least bad option - the status quoof staying in the European Union or joining the United Kingdom in leaving it? That brings us back in a roundabout way to the possibility of rejoining the United Kingdom in everything but name. If we were to leave the European Union, we would have to return to a currency that was tied to sterling once upon a time.

This is a hugely complex issue. During last year's referendum campaign the Brexiteers suggested that because Britain was a net contributor to the European Union, it would be able to use the money it no longer needed to pay to the European Union to support the National Health Service, but all of that disappeared as soon as the "Leave" vote was confirmed. It suddenly transpired that the National Health Service would not receive an additional €300 million a week. The main consequence of the outcome of the referendum was uncertainty. I know from talking to people who work in the financial services sector in London that many of them have been told to prepare to leave London and move to Frankfurt or Paris. We heard about the uncertainty in the airline industry when a representative of the industry appeared before the committee a number of weeks ago. Uncertainty - the biggest issue Britain is facing - would transfer immediately to Ireland if we were to move in the same direction as the United Kingdom. Would Google or Intel open new facilities or tell employees to come here if we were facing the uncertainty that lies ahead for Britain?

Dr. Coughlan has made some valid points about the eurozone and militarisation. My colleagues and I have expressed concern about the creeping militarisation of the European Union. The federalist mentality of people in Brussels is contrary to the will of the peoples of Europe, as was seen when they voted on the proposed EU constitution. While I have many concerns about the European Union, we should focus on whether, on balance, it has been better for Ireland in the past 40 years. When we had an Anglo-Irish trade agreement, Ireland was the poorer for it because Britain dictated its terms. Dr. Coughlan has suggested Ireland and Britain could negotiate their own trade agreements if Ireland were to leave the European Union too. If we were to try to negotiate 55 trade agreements with the countries with which Ireland and Britain currently have trade agreements by virtue of their membership of the European Union, it would be a huge process. This country would not have the capacity to do so on its own. It would take decades to negotiate 55 trade agreements and we are assuming that these countries would be interested in negotiating trade deals with us. They would be interested in negotiating trade deals with the United Kingdom, but it would take them decades to do so. It is important, however, for the issue to be debated and the point of view to be put across.

In the worst-case scenario and if things go bad for Britain, the wait-and-see attitude is all we have at this moment in time. If it was quite clear that Britain would benefit, then everyone would be leaving the EU and Ireland would be leaving too. We are now the country most likely to be the worst affected by Brexit and whether we join them is a question to which, at this stage, nobody knows the answer. It is made all the more complex for Ireland because we are in the eurozone. This would double the complexity of trying to leave a trading bloc and a currency union at the same time. I am not sure that any country has ever managed to do that. Are there were any examples of a country leaving a currency union in this context? Even when Ireland left the United Kingdom in 1922 we had our own currency but it effectively was tied to sterling. Where are the modern examples in such a complex and global world where such an issue could happen? I believe it is a valuable contribution.

I wish to apologise because I must attend the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, where we are also talking about Brexit. I will read the transcripts of Dr. Coughlan's reply because it is important. While people in this House would share many of his views on militarisation and the growing bureaucracy of Brussels, Ireland's only status at the moment is to wait and see and try to negotiate the best deal for ourselves as part of Brexit. If that does not work out there is always the option of which Dr. Coughlan speaks. The option is there but at this stage, when we consider the information we have heard about what is facing Britain as a result of Brexit and Theresa May's continuous statement that she wants to make Brexit a success and when we consider what has been clearly stated by EU politicians, then Brexit cannot be a success from an EU point of view. If it is a success, it is the end of the European Union. It is a huge challenge for the country. Are there examples in modern times of countries having successfully left a trading bloc and a currency union simultaneously? We want to hear about examples or precedents and if there is an example of that. All my colleagues will be asking questions and I do not believe the Chairman will allow the witness to answer it now, but I will read the responses.