Mr. Tim Duggan:

It does not only apply to the nine schemes; it applies to every defined benefit scheme. Just because a scheme is solvent today and the employer is committed to supporting it does not mean it will remain the case. In the event there is any change in those circumstances, where an employer seeks to cease contributions to a defined benefit scheme, the provisions set out here will apply.

It is absolutely a possibility the 12 months will make things worse. The nature of schemes and their funding position changes over time. Consequently, depending on what is happening at any given moment in time, something could disimprove from the time an employer announces it will cease contributions. The provisions make allowance for the notice period being reduced. It is a very deliberate provision to facilitate a discussion between the trustees and the employer where they believe the situation the Deputy referred to could arise. In that case they would allow for a shorter period. It has to be by agreement between the trustees and the employer rather than being unilaterally imposed by one side.

The issue of the contributions during the period being below that required was raised. The legislation sets out that the employer must make the proper contributions during the period of dialogue, namely the 12-month notification period. If they do not do that and stay with a lesser contribution, they will be in breach of the law.

The issue was raised about consultation being meaningless. The trustees are required under law to act in the best interests of all of the members of the scheme, which means they must engage in dialogue with the members - active, deferred and pensioners - and seek their views. There will obviously be differences of opinion across those three constituencies. They will have to try to balance those against what they know to be the position with respect to the employer and their capability for funding. I fully accept sometimes it is better to have hard and fast imposition through legislation but in this situation it could be as detrimental as it could be beneficial.

The Deputy suggested an employer would only have to enter into discussions and that the Pensions Authority piece, if I can call it that, would be unable to kick in because the employer did not fail to enter into a funding proposal. That is not the case. Under the head, a funding proposal must be made within a defined period of time. If it is not made within that period of time, the Pensions Authority will have the power to impose a contribution schedule. If they do not enter into discussions and therefore the trustee is unable to make an agreed funding proposal the provision will kick in. If they enter into discussions but are unable to agree a funding proposal with the trustees the provision will kick in. It is tighter than the Deputy suggested. The backstop is there regardless of what level of engagement the employer has with the trustees.

I have not seen the pension equality report. We will do our best to respond to it within the time the Chairman suggested if it is possible. I am saying it blind.